It looks like there is a seam line in the panel. The light changes angle in the reflection of the window.

The seam may be perfect but the reflection is pointing out where it was seamed together. I may be looking at it wrong.

Posted By Andy Graves on 27 Dec 2011 02:34 PM
It looks like there is a seam line in the panel. The light changes angle in the reflection of the window.

The seam may be perfect but the reflection is pointing out where it was seamed together. I may be looking at it wrong.

Andy:

The seam line is extremely inconspicuous. As I stated previously, the seamed panels are on two different planes. They are on two different planes because my wall framing is crooked. I can reframe my house or shim the panel until I have no space between the panel and my window casing, or attach the panels on two different planes. I chose the latter.

You are not looking at it wrong. I post the most critical pictures of my work.

Joe

Andy:

I just realized that the first picture in my fourth post on page 6, the one with the window reflection showing the "bump", is only visable now because the glass shower walls are not yet installed on the half wall. After the wall goes up, you'll be too perpendicular to the bump to see it, reflection or not.

Joe

Just a note to give you an update. The fabricator has agreed to accept what we have paid him as payment in full (writing off the final payment), and we have someone lined up to repair the seams next week.

You guys have all been so great, and we so appreciate all your input and support through this. It was a very fortunate day that I stumbled upon this forum and put a post up hoping someone might respond...

So heartfelt thanks to all of you!!

= ) Deb

Good to hear we could help. Post a picture after the repair if you could.

Happy New Year

Well, I won't say that it is the same as saving a child from a burning house.  But, Andy, without this web site that you created and keep alive.  And the good peeps who participate.  Deb may have found herself having to live with that crappy workmanship.

Deb, I am glad that you will get resolution to this debacle.  Shame on the original hackricator.

Johnny C

Posted By John Christensen on 04 Jan 2012 03:23 PM
Well, I won't say that it is the same as saving a child from a burning house.  But, Andy, without this web site that you created and keep alive.  And the good peeps who participate.  Deb may have found herself having to live with that crappy workmanship.

Deb, I am glad that you will get resolution to this debacle.  Shame on the original hackricator.

Johnny C

Johnny,
Fact is, this economy has created "hackricators" everywhere.

Its amazing how many times now I am called to look at a job to see if it can be fixed. Most times I just tell the people you got what you paid for, you did get your monies worth. It really pisses them off though. They think if for 1/2 price they can get a perfect job.

I really didn't see anything on Deb's job that I have not seen in person with other fabs jobs or seen in some displays in home centers. I mirror cut all my seams, some takes the easy way and glue from factory edges, some glue right off a table saw...

The reason I got into solid surface was because of a bad fab job. I built a cherry set of cabinets and the homeowner paid a fortune to get the best company to do her solid surface. It sucked. I could see glue lines everywhere. I knew there was a better way... and I found it.

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 05 Jan 2012 05:38 AM

Posted By John Christensen on 04 Jan 2012 03:23 PM
Well, I won't say that it is the same as saving a child from a burning house.  But, Andy, without this web site that you created and keep alive.  And the good peeps who participate.  Deb may have found herself having to live with that crappy workmanship.

Deb, I am glad that you will get resolution to this debacle.  Shame on the original hackricator.

Johnny C

Johnny,
Fact is, this economy has created "hackricators" everywhere.

Its amazing how many times now I am called to look at a job to see if it can be fixed. Most times I just tell the people you got what you paid for, you did get your monies worth. It really pisses them off though. They think if for 1/2 price they can get a perfect job.

I really didn't see anything on Deb's job that I have not seen in person with other fabs jobs or seen in some displays in home centers. I mirror cut all my seams, some takes the easy way and glue from factory edges, some glue right off a table saw...

The reason I got into solid surface was because of a bad fab job. I built a cherry set of cabinets and the homeowner paid a fortune to get the best company to do her solid surface. It sucked. I could see glue lines everywhere. I knew there was a better way... and I found it.

Kelsey,
I couldnt agree more.  
Before I would start coddling her, it would be interseting to here the fabricators side of the story. Theres always two sides to the story.
What happened before she chose him? I didnt see any threads from Deb here on fabnet asking about quality workmanship or what things should look like previous to making her desision. She says she based her decision on a recomendation from a contractor and a realtor. But never said she went to look at any of this fabricators work.
Its very possable that neither one of them know what quality workmanship looks like. So this fabricator is one of those guys who will give you what you pay for.


If anything this thread has shown what gluing from a factory edge may look like, weather it be on Debs job or kowboys bathroom.

As a consumer myself, it is difficult to always see a contractors work. Customers are not always willing to let you into their home to see what the contractor did.

I think the fabricator may have had good intentions but when the seam went bad they just left it because the cost associated with fixing it was just too high. Probably hoping the customer wouldn't say anything, all would be fine.

What would really change things if the customer would post the fabricators name and address. That way the next customer doing a Google search may see this thread and steer clear. That is sometime a lot to ask of a consumer because they just don't want to get tangled in a legal mess with the contractor.

Posted By Andy Graves on 05 Jan 2012 10:23 AM
As a consumer myself, it is difficult to always see a contractors work. Customers are not always willing to let you into their home to see what the contractor did.

I think the fabricator may have had good intentions but when the seam went bad they just left it because the cost associated with fixing it was just too high. Probably hoping the customer wouldn't say anything, all would be fine.

What would really change things if the customer would post the fabricators name and address. That way the next customer doing a Google search may see this thread and steer clear. That is sometime a lot to ask of a consumer because they just don't want to get tangled in a legal mess with the contractor.

Again knowing the whole story would be helpful. How about the layout and design of the kitchen and COST.  She said there was still a balance of 530.00. What was the payment schedual 1/2 up front 1/2 on completion or 1/3, 1/3, 1/3. I'm sure it would put things into perspective.
Dont get me wrong, I agree the seams suck. But before you going posting the fabricatiors name, a copy of the contract should also be posted to show what was agreed upon.
Did Deb hire a Fabrictor with a SHOP and SHOWROOM or atleast SAMPLES for all to see at anytime they walk in the door, or did she hire a so called  bargain driveway fabricator without anything to show a potential customer but some second hand recomendation.
The recomendations came from a contractor and a realtor. Two types of clientele that are notorious for beating you up on price and wanting something yesterday. Its a lesson learned, if you want to see what kind of work a fabricator or any contractor is going to give you, see some previous work. If you dont and your unhappy with the quality of work you received poo poo on you. 

I would like to know who she hired to fix the job?  It could turn out worse that when she started!

Steve, the $530.00... it could very well be one of the $29 sf ads you commonly see for SS. I don't know anyone that does 1/3rd's... I thought standard was 1/2? I've got a local guy here that is doing Never Compromise colors for less than $30.sqft. 

I have heard of guys doing everything to fab this material....  I even heard of one guy that was seen hauling corian on an old jet ski trailer.

When a properly qualified customer turns to a low-priced "hackricator" (nice word, Johnny) it is the fault of the real fabricator not having done his job.

Yes, a real fabricator has to know how to make seams, fabricate and install, but he also has to know how to sell a job. Not "educate consumers" and all the other euphemsitic bulls%$t that gets tossed out. Jobs must be sold. Not "bid". Sold. Get used to it. Not only should you be as proud of your sales skills as you are of your fabrication skills, when your sales skills fail you, you've failed your customer.

If customers base decisions on price only, why don't low bidders have ALL the work?

Because somewhere, a proud salesman is doing his job, which is convincing customers that he's offering value, not low price. That's why.

Stop blaming customers if you haven't done your sales job.
You wouldn't blame them if the seam failed.

Joe

Kelsey, I was trying to give the benefit of doubt with the 1/3,1/3,1/3. At 1590.00 TFI is scary at best but at 1060.00 you got what you paid for.

Joe, I wouldn't call someone who chooses a hackricator over a good fabricator a well qualified customer, there a cheap ass.

Posted By Kowboy on 05 Jan 2012 05:11 PM
When a properly qualified customer turns to a low-priced "hackricator" (nice word, Johnny) it is the fault of the real fabricator not having done his job.

Yes, a real fabricator has to know how to make seams, fabricate and install, but he also has to know how to sell a job. Not "educate consumers" and all the other euphemsitic bulls%$t that gets tossed out. Jobs must be sold. Not "bid". Sold. Get used to it. Not only should you be as proud of your sales skills as you are of your fabrication skills, when your sales skills fail you, you've failed your customer.

If customers base decisions on price only, why don't low bidders have ALL the work?

Because somewhere, a proud salesman is doing his job, which is convincing customers that he's offering value, not low price. That's why.

Stop blaming customers if you haven't done your sales job.
You wouldn't blame them if the seam failed.

Joe

"when your sales skills fail you , you've failed your customer"
What the hell does that mean?  It's all about getting their check?

And.."because a proud salesman is convincing"? Oh hell yeah... let me sell you these $119.00 replacement windows.. that are as good as the name brand... is there a different between Convince and swindle, convince or deceive?

The customer is not wrong here. Customers typically don't know all the details and have to trust others when getting referrals. How was she to know that this fabricator was going to seam the tops together and leave a big fat glue line.

This is on the fabricator and the manufacturer/distributor. Crap fabricators should be purged from the system. Allowing hackricators (again nice word) to continue to fabricate gives solid surface industry a bad name.

The customer should post the name and address of the fabricator and let the fabricator come on here to justify why he left the customer with a crappy seam. That would be fair in my opinion.

If a customer posted a complaint on here about a top I installed, I would bend over backwards to make it right.

The bottom line, no matter what she paid or how she paid makes no difference. The fabricator screwed her. There is absolutely no excuse for a seam like that and we all know it.

Posted By Steve Mehan on 05 Jan 2012 06:01 PM 

Joe, I wouldn't call someone who chooses a hackricator over a good fabricator a well qualified customer, there a cheap ass.

Steve:

That's where a good salesman earns his money. He qualifies customers. I can sniff out a beat-you-down price shopper from 15 feet away and I won't do business with them. Saves us both lots of aggrivation.

A well-qualified customer who chooses a low-price hackricator has not had the benifit of running into a good salesman.

Joe

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 05 Jan 2012 06:29 PM

 

"when your sales skills fail you , you've failed your customer"
What the hell does that mean?  It's all about getting their check?

And.."because a proud salesman is convincing"? Oh hell yeah... let me sell you these $119.00 replacement windows.. that are as good as the name brand... is there a different between Convince and swindle, convince or deceive?

Kelsey:

I'll tell you what it means. It means getting the checks of the people with whom you want to do business. I've never been bashful once in my life about collecting a balance due because I know the job is done right and the customers are happy.

Of course there is a difference between convince and decieve/swindle. That type of mindset perpetuates the stereotype of the slick salesman. Yes, I use sales tools. You use tools in your shop to get your job done don't you? Why is a closing technique any different than a sanding technique? Both are essential to the health of your business.

Joe

Joe, I know what you mean about a beat you down. Remember what I said about contractors. Oh how many times have I heard give me my contractors price.