I'm going to have some time the next couple of weeks and want to post some more videos. I was wondering if I could get some recommendations?

Thanks
Nssthan

What have you done so far? Is there a YouTube channel we could check out?

There is a YouTube channel.  If you look at Natural Stone Systems TV there are 14 different videos there.

The following link is to the channel and a list of the videos

http://www.youtube.com/user/nssthan

I would suggest learning proper techniques before you make videos to show people how to do something. Rodding with polyester is not the right way to do it. It needs to be encapsulated in epoxy, not poly, not acrylic.

I posted this information on my YouTube site as well.  Having the exact numbers helps.

I found this just to support why not acrylic.  It is the only one of the 3 that becomes malleable when heated.  Perhaps not likely in a sink, but more plausible in the stove.

I am not trying to change the topic.  I still would like some ideas.  Since it has been mentioned a couple of times about not using polyester for rodding and I don't think anyone could say that the science supports that.  I would submit that maybe it was the perfect storm of carelessness/ignorance.  Whatever the adhesive, maybe the channel was cut then rod inserted knife grade floated over the top.

I was wondering if you have any videos on cleaning and sealing existing granite. We often get asked to show the customer how to clean the granite to prepare if for resealing.

You're kidding right?  It is a commonly know fact that polyester does not hold out in wet conditions or when exposed to UV light for prolonged periods of time. It contracts, when it contracts it allows moisture to penetrate. Granted if you're using stainless steel you're far better off than plain flat steel rod.

I am not against polyester, we use poly for laminations and miters for interior work, but rodding is different. You're adding another variable.

I am not trying to get into a lengthy debate. do what you want, I just though it would be appropriate to use correct methods when making videos. things are about to change, standards will change, tolerances will change. Requirements will be tighter soon, and believe me they wont allow poly for this type of work.

Just because everyone thinks it's true doesn't make it true. In the study the tell us that epoxy is the one that is not uv stable. And as far as shrinkage goes epoxy shrinks about 2% where polyester shrinks about 7%.

They both shrink. One is less than the other

I still think my 2 theories are worth considering.

How often do people see this? I have been working in a granite shop for more than 20 years. Half of those years in shops with more than 15 employees and I have never seen this.

Cameron, I appreciate your feedback. I just think that in our industry we have more opinion than science.

Than

so youre telling me polyester resin is UV stable? 

I am not a fabricator, I am a stone refinisher. I see everything after the fact. I dont need to be a chemist or scientist to tell you that without a doubt, poly is not UV stable at all, or moisture stable. Epoxy is far less vulnerable to the elements.

in most cases, because I am told by the homeowner, they wont call the original company that did the work back to look at the damage for fear of more problems. not that the blame is automatically on the fabricator, but thats how they feel. if no one is calling you back to look, then of course you've never seen it in 15 years.

Im not implying your work is failing, its just an example.

there are different variations of polyester resin, so when you do your research make sure its stone specific. surfboards use poly, as far as Im aware and they are used in direct sunlight.

Poly IS resin. this is the problem, you are unaware, watch Than's video, go rod with poly and possibly have an issue. I am not coming down on you for not knowing, education is key, however education doesnt mean anything if the information is incorrect.

Than, I am not saying you can never rod with poly and that all rodded tops with poly will fail, but the potential is there. Why not use expoxy and be done with it? Granted someone can still screw it up with epoxy

epoxy is typically more expensive, and more often than not, is used in liquid form.

there are some expensive premium hybrid resins out there, but they are what they are, resin.

the biggest problem in failures has come from people who are unaware of the differences and choose to use resin because its either cheaper or easier to work with.

we use resin to laminate our edges, unless its going outside. if it goes outside with use liquid epoxy. you can get epoxy (aka A/B) in knife grade form, usually around $45 for a quart kit, while a quart of resin is $10-$15

I didnt come here to bash Than, and I have no doubt Than is capable of producing a quality, long lasting top using poly. the problem is not everyone will understand or know the difference. If anything, it should be explained in the video.

the videos are great.

like I said, education is key and it is lacking in our industry.

Than you should check out the StoneFabricatorsAlliance.com site. You belong there (its a compliment)

For those who are unaware, Cameron won the 2009 Stone Fabricatior Alliance Educator of the Year Award. He is of course too modest to say, but I have no problem saying it for him.

He is also very knowlegeable and generous with his time, especially at the SFA Workshops. If you get a chance to take notes from the Camminator, I suggest you do it, as I have been so fortunate.

Cam:

Good to see you here.


Joe

Cameron, I have enjoyed the discussion and I think that in the debate there are answers to questions that have both been on peoples minds and on the board.

The definition of a resin as given by Chemsult which is an adhesive consulting company is as follows:

"Resin is a natural or synthetic compound which begins in a highly viscous state and hardens with treatment.  Typically, resin is soluable in alcohol, but not water."

They are both resin.  I really thought you might enjoy seeing where the adhesives really fail.

Just as a side note.  I never use polyester for laminating granite.  I'm sure that it is just a function of how I was raised.:)  When I was a kid working in the early 80's for a great guy in Portland, OR, polyester was for the softer material and it was NEVER acceptable to use anything but epoxy on granite.  We did a lot of laminating then.  This was back when everything was a laminated 2cm.

Well, in the laminate world you can spray on contact adhesive, brush it on, or trowel it on. Circumstances and exposure usually determine what is used. Most fabricators know this.

What most fabricators don't know is that you can also use Pva, liquid urea, resourcinol or many other types of adhesive. It usually requires other equipment, such as a press, and that's why others don't usually know or use these other glues. Many times these adhesives result in far superior bonding and allow more longevity to the finished product.

Does that fabricator care about something he doesn't even know? I doubt it. Does his customer get angry because he is not using something that might give her a better product? Nope. As long as he makes a product that will last as long as it is expected to, and perform as well as it should, for the dollars quoted there should be no complaints. It doesn't mean that somewhere someone isn't making a better top.

There's a parallel in here somewhere, but I'm too much of an idiot to figure it out. G'night all.