It has been my experience that the Architect has little to do with who the fabricator is. They may have some input as to the GC but then it is up to the GC to choose his subs. The more important relationship is with the GC. That being said, I have been able to use my relationship with an Architect to help get in with the GC. One other word of advice, if you get the job with the GC do NOT ever go to the Architect with a question without the GC approval, it can really come back to bite you. I would spend your time building relationships with the GC"s and not worry about the Architects, that is the responsibility of the material mfg to get their product spec'd. I would also never switch a spec without a darn good reason ( availability, VE. etc) and never without everyone in the chain signing off on the change.

If I was bidding to the same GC and they kept getting the jobs and I didn't I would have a serious face to face with them. Most will respect that you can't just be there to keep their "main buddy" honest. I have refused to bid to some since I never got the jobs anyway. Most GC that I worked with wanted to spread the work to more than one shop, just to CYA if nothing else.

Tom,
I agree. What the relationship with the architect will provide is an idea of what projects are comming up and a listing of all GC's bidding the existing jobs.

Also, from experience, I have seen fabricators listed for projects because they helped the architect figure out a particular issue. No guarantee they would get the work but they were listed as knowing the project and process.

No relationship in the commercial field is a bad relationship. Some will have more value than others but all still have value.

This relationship building is something our company needs to work on. It will be valuable in the future as more commercial projects get spec'd and more and more fabricators begin to bid.

Posted By Andy Graves on 07 Jan 2011 01:14 PM
This relationship building is something our company needs to work on. It will be valuable in the future as more commercial projects get spec'd and more and more fabricators begin to bid.

Andy:

I agree about relationship building, but I disagree with "more and more fabricators begin(nig) to bid".

The recession we've experienced is like a forest fire, in that only the best survive. When things pick up, as they are starting to do, there are less competitors, not more. Ask Mory, small fabricators are dying in his area. This is sad but only in a lion-eats-a-baby-gazell kind of way.

Plus, there is the wear-out factor. I used to bid commercial work, but the insanely low prices and six-month wait for payment winnowes the bidder list quite quickly.

Build those relationships. You'll harvest from the seeds you plant now in a year or so.

Joe 

I have noticed in past recessions, companies will go out of business and those folks will take up work in other industries. Now they have nowhere to go so they close there doors and run their business out of the garage. They still seem to be around even though they aren't doing much.

We've been doing exclusively commercial work for over 15 years, and if I could make one observation that (in my opinion) is critical to getting consistent work, it's this: it's important to know your niche. You need to be the expert in your niche, or you are just another number to a GC's estimator. Of course, if your number is crazy low, you may get his/her attention, but....

"Commercial" work is specialized. There are architects/GC's who specialize in Health Care, others who specialize in Tenant Improvements, or Military, or Food Services, Convenience stores, etc. There are design firms who are sought out because of their high design, and they will have more influence on the selection of subcontractors, and this is the type of firm that looks for folks like Jon Olson at Sterling Surfaces. Each of these segments has specific conditions under which they work that may not relate to other segments, and that will affect your estimate.

It's also important to know how the work is procured. Is the GC bidding under a low-bid scenario? Is it a Design/Build project, where the GC hires the Architect as part of his team? Is it a negotiated bid? These things have important nuances that if correctly understood, put you in a better position of preparing a solid number.

Knowing your niche will also keep you from unintentionally stepping on someone's toes, as Wags and Bill alluded to. If a design/build GC hires an architect, and give the design team marching orders, you could be stepping into something you didn't bargain for if you say the wrong thing to the wrong person. Ask me how I know. ;^)

In a nutshell, GC's and Architects are not solid surface specialists, and they usually admit this readily. They will come to depend on a sub who shows a good grasp of the pressures under which they operate, and who brings solutions tailored to their budget. If they often go to their "regular guy," that's why.

Today, I think we know our chosen niche pretty well, but when we first started bidding for these projects, we couldn't get a job to save our lives! But the constant losing only made us more determined to find out how to succeed at our niche. We had just had a meeting, and decided to give up solid surface work and do general contracting, when we got our first contract in the mail. It was a huge solid surface contract, which made the two previous years of continually being turned down worth it.

Choose a niche that fits your abilities. We are not a Sterling Surfaces, so I don't spend any time estimating stuff that is a perfect fit for Jon & Crew. We are not a Health Care sub, so I turn down opportunities for bidding those jobs. It takes a lot of time (as Andy has pointed out) to bid some complex jobs, so pick the ones you are best suited for and skip the ones for which you're poorly suited.

Also....know your contractors. There is one very "successful" contractor in our niche we will never bid. Why? Because when they courted us, they invited us in to their offices, pushed their low-bidders scope and price in front of me, and said "we'll give you the job if you will beat our low-bidder's number." I asked them to remove my name from their bid list, because I could see that the next meeting would be another sub being shown my scope letter and price.

One last thing: know your suppliers. When we first started in the business, one of the reasons we couldn't be successful (we found out later) is that the sales rep was protecting one of her favorite fabricators. The other fabricator was being given much lower pricing than we were on the same projects, and I only found it out by mistake. I stopped buying from the distributor who carried the 800 lb. gorilla's products, and started buying from another manufacturer's distributor, at better prices. Once we started winning projects, what do you know! The other manufacturer came back with better pricing! ;^) This was years ago, and all the players have changed, but it's still important to know who you are dealing with.

I should mention this too..if someone is looking to go more commercial, I’d start by finding two or three quality GC’s, and start by getting to know their estimators. The estimators are the front line guys who will be looking for someone on whom they can depend when they run into a spec they aren’t as familiar with. Imho, they are the starting point. After the bid, they will be able to point you in the right direction to find out how you stacked up.

It’s important to be ready for change. The more successful you become in your niche, the more your business will change. Job roles within your own company will change, your preferred geographic region may change, etc.

I have to confess here that we didn’t get into our niche because we were so much smarter or talented than anyone else…anyone who knows me will attest to the fact that I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed. In some ways we were along for the ride. We prayed a lot, trusted that God would guide us where He wanted to take us, and the same it true today, whether our business shrinks or grows.

Sorry for the long-winded ramble!

Len

Len:

We need more, not less, experienced well-written "long winded rambles" like yours.

Thanks,

Joe

Good information Len. Thanks for the post.