KCWOOD
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| 05 Dec 2010 01:01 PM |
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Have a job I will start soon, I will be taking the directional SS and running the grain from wall out to the edge, with the corner being done in a fan shape to keep the direction going. The couple understands about sq ft pricing will not apply so much as I will have seams every 28" or so. The lady is an Art major and understands to get the look she wants means custom and that takes time! What fun and unique look will this be?? Glad I have 2 sets of paraligns! Anyone else ever done this?? I love unique request!!  |
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Bill Wolle
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| 05 Dec 2010 01:14 PM |
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Kelsey,
Yes, I have seen it done. "C" has the directions written somewhere on how to do it from when the Design Portfolio was introduced. I used to have a sample of it at ITEC when I was there. I am sure you will get it better than that anyway. It really looks great when done. You may still want to slide the materials back and forth to get the best continuity. It is going to eat up material as well as labor so you have the best customer for this.
Post a picture of it when done. |
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| 05 Dec 2010 03:07 PM |
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Kelsey:
Sounds like a fun job, but I'm not getting what you're doing exactly. How about a drawing?
Joe |
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Andy Graves
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| 05 Dec 2010 09:28 PM |
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We do this on "U" shaped countertops so you end up with seams every 29". |
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KCWOOD
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| 05 Dec 2010 10:06 PM |
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Andy, do you do the entire top that way, or just the bottom of the "U"? How do you turn the corners?
I will be using several pie cut pieces to cut the corners. This lady has taken pictures of a displayed sheet, used a program to slice it up the photos and place them in her countertop shape. She said she thinks we can fan the corners to where it looks like it flows that way and using the different color aspects of the sheet, will make the seams very hard if not impossible to find.
It is so cool to work with a customer who understands the product and its capabilities... plus... wants to try something new!!
Kowboy... Different companies are making solid surface now which actually has a grain or direction to it. Maybe you could go to your local home center to see what is new in countertops. There you can see samples of what the companies are selling and what i am taking about. Martha Stewart even has her own branded directional material you will see at Home Depot.
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Arnold Trenkner
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| 05 Dec 2010 11:06 PM |
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Kelsey,
We made last year some tops for a very big Bar at a Casino here in Sydney,
it is all backlit. We made templates with all the different radiuses, from memory
about 14 and then we cast all the material to the shape.
With the backlit application you can not have to many joints as the will show up.
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"Any darn fool can make something complex; it takes a genius to make something simple."
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KCWOOD
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| 06 Dec 2010 12:44 AM |
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Posted By Arnold Trenkner on 05 Dec 2010 06:06 PM
Kelsey,
We made last year some tops for a very big Bar at a Casino here in Sydney,
it is all backlit. We made templates with all the different radiuses, from memory
about 14 and then we cast all the material to the shape.
With the backlit application you can not have to many joints as the will show up.
Gosh dangit Arnold.... just when us guys in the states think we are pretty good at what we do, then comes a picture from 1/2 way around the globe of what you guys are doing with the same products... I feel like I'm still in first grade! That is one awesome bar!! Nice work... do you have any fabrication pictures you could share? |
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Matt Rickard
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| 06 Dec 2010 01:40 AM |
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Kelly are you gonna keep the direction flow with the cabs or is it all going to be running left to right? Please explain what you mean by fanning the corners.Remember I am just a stone guy.:) |
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Matt Rickard
Unique Granite & Marble
Owensboro, Ky
www.uniquegranite.biz |
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Arnold Trenkner
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| 06 Dec 2010 01:41 AM |
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"Any darn fool can make something complex; it takes a genius to make something simple."
-Albert Einstein
ozarniehttp://www.arketique.com |
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Andy Graves
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| 06 Dec 2010 03:55 AM |
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Kelsey,
Typically just the bottom of the u is going with the pattern on the material. WE have never had to do the corners like you are doing. |
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Chris Yaughn
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| 06 Dec 2010 05:28 AM |
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Matt , all the grain will be running from front edge, to back wall. For the entire countertop.
Perpindicular to what we normally try and do with stone. |
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KCWOOD
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| 06 Dec 2010 10:26 AM |
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Posted By Matt Rickard on 05 Dec 2010 08:40 PM
Kelly are you gonna keep the direction flow with the cabs or is it all going to be running left to right? Please explain what you mean by fanning the corners.Remember I am just a stone guy.:) ah,,, geez...Matt.. you wanting a picture too?  didn't I give you a copy of the plastic to stone translation guide? Maybe Chris explained it better... I said from back wall to front edge.... he said front edge to back wall. Basically Matt, we will take our 30" wide sheet, cut it into 25-1/2"x 30" piecs and then seam all the 25-1/2 " edges back together. When I get to the corner, all of the corner direction will flow from the back wall to the 2" radius on the inside corner of the cabinet, kinda like a fan shape. The trick is going to be aligning the grain in such a manner, the grain looks continuous even though the pieces will be cut wedge shape and the grain turns 90 deg. |
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Wags
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| 06 Dec 2010 01:16 PM |
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Somewhere I saw a picutre of what you doing, I think it was using Formicas directional material. Should look great, lots of work though! Be sure to post pictures. |
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Lenny E
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| 06 Dec 2010 01:43 PM |
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Hi Wags, I love directional material and have several patents in them. I had to fight the bean counters and talking suits with heads to introduce those products since it went against the corporate perceived paradigm of solid surfacing. My feeling is that it's solid surface and anything you can imagine you can create in SS. Its such an easy material to design with. E stone is more arduous, due to the constrictions placed upon one by the physics of the Raw Materials, but Im working it!  |
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John Christensen
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| 06 Dec 2010 03:48 PM |
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Whether you run the grain from the front edge back to the wall (short). Or parallel to the front edge (long). Going around the corner using pie shaped pieces is a good way to achieve good asthetics. My last job that used directional material was the same one that had tile inlays. It also had a couple of places where the grain needed to turn. In discussions with the customer it was decided that it would not be as pleasing to run all the grain in the same direction for all sections. We dediced to make a mitered seam at the stove penninsula and a two seam pie at the 45 deg. "L" at the other end. It doesn't show up very well in this photo but there was a long edge to edge seam down the middle of the peninnsula. It wasn't invisable. But it didn't jump out at you either.   Johnny C |
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John Christensen
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| 06 Dec 2010 04:04 PM |
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Arnold:
Your casino bar is very impressive. The best backlighting I have seen. From the photos, I can not see any shadows from any support structure. Very nice.
When you say that your cast the radius, I will take that literally and think that you pour your own product. Naturally this will help eliminate the need for extra seaming.
Nice job!!!!
Johnny C |
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| 06 Dec 2010 04:17 PM |
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Johnny:
Thanks for the pictures, especially the last one. I think it shows a version of what Kelsey is trying to describe to us.
It isn't going to be as simple as cutting a 30" sheet into 25 1/2" crosscuts and seaming the 25 1/2" edges back together. As we can see in your last picture, the distance from the inside corner to the intersection of the back walls is much longer than 25 1/2". Kelsey will need to seam (grain parallel) onto the 30" side a piece long enough to complete the fan and deep enough to make it to the wall intersection or the opposite edge if it is a finished outside corner.
These seams are very unlikely to be inconspicuous which is neither good nor bad depending on what was sold to the customer.
Joe |
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Andy Graves
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| 06 Dec 2010 06:56 PM |
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We rarely change directions unless each leg is extremely long. |
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Andy Graves
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| 29 Dec 2010 08:41 PM |
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Here are some more Private collection colors we've finished. Notice the seams on the deck and back splashes.
Two seams, one at the corner and one behind the sink.
This is the top we had to piece the splash together. Customer wanted the pattern to go vertical. I think it is kinda weird like that but I wasn't paying.
No seams, I just thought this looked cool.
Notice the direction of the material on the lower top is all the same direction. Computers will cover the seams on the left side.
Installed the upper top in one piece to avoid a second seam. Miter is the only seam location.
This seam is more noticeable although the customer didn't see it.
Two seam side by side. Seam to the left is the field seam. |
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John Christensen
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| 29 Dec 2010 09:52 PM |
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Thanks for the pics, Andy. Seeing those kinds of patterns in a real configuration gives a better perspective on what it can look like. I personally don't care for the grain running front to back, unless it is a very short "L". Not right or wrong, just my preference. The job that I posted last month had some particular challenges to it. The customer specifically did not want the grain to run across the short span of the peninsula. I had no choice but to mitre at the "L"s. Since we turned the pattern at the peninsula, we really had to turn the pattern at the other end also. The biggest problem was that the distance between "D" and "E" was 13 feet. I used 8 ft. of one sheet and 5 feet of a second sheet and put a seam through the sink on a 45deg. angle (A). I did my best to avoid any vivid pattern and doubled up the thickness around the sink to reinforce the seam. When finished, I had a hard time showing my wife where I had placed the seams to streched the sheets. C to D was a mitre seam. B was a site seam that was cut by running a 1/2" router bit through the counter after it was built in one piece. I could choose a place where the patterning was minimal and not runniing at an angle. By doing this it went back together without a noticeable cut in the veining.  I couldn't get the whole length of the kitchen in one photo. D to E was 13 feet.  Making these two seams at the same angle made it easy to do a mirror cut and pick a spot at both sides of the sink that avoided vivid patterns.  I only make a seam through a sink cut out if it gets a Solid Surface sink or I can double up the edge of the cutout to reinforce the seam before undermounting the stainless sink. It looks good too, when the sink cut out is 1" thick. It takes more time and material but it is something that I have built into the price when I am doing a veined pattern. The 7 foot fall off from one sheet was just about right to make the center and far right hand piece of the right side "L". The 4 foot fall off of the second sheet was about 1/2" longer thatn needed to make a desk on the other side of the kitchen (not shown). Johnny C |
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