KCWOOD
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| 09 Nov 2010 11:54 PM |
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I know the rules, we cannot discuss pricing amongst ourselves, so this topic is outside the scope of that. This concerns a national promoted advertised price.
I just had a customer call and ask for a quote on Aztec Quartz an LG product. She asked if my price was the advertised Lowes price of $37 a sq ft? I was curious about that amount and quizzed her about the Lowes promo. She said, and this was confirmed from by LG... they have 6 colors on special for $37 a sq ft.
According to my rep, LG has not discounted the material for the fabricator for that price, so basically LG and Lowes has run this promo at the expense of the Fabricator and their employees. They did this to gain market share. So what happens, if Formica and Corian get into a price pissing match and all of a sudden the price is $20 a square foot. Just 2 months ago this color was at $52 a sq ft advertised at Lowes... Just how is the fabricator, on an average kitchen going to function losing -- well receiving $400-600 less per job..??
gee.. |
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| 10 Nov 2010 12:12 AM |
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Kelsey:
There is no way LG isn't discounting the material. If I had the Lowe's fabrication account and they waltzed in and told me I was eating fifteen or so a foot, I'd say see ya after a few other well chosen words.
Your rep is lying or being lied to.
Joe |
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KCWOOD
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| 10 Nov 2010 12:32 AM |
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or Joe... the Fab has taken such a beating in the past, they just need the work at any cost.
Kinda like seeing the $30 sq ft granite and then a 'For sale" sign on their door a few months later...
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Tom M
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| 10 Nov 2010 04:07 AM |
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These prices have to be loss leaders. I agree 100 percent with Joe.
How to get around saying it isn't? Well, if LG is the one paying the fabricators, who's to know what exactly the material's true cost is??? |
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C.S. Lewis |
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Andy Graves
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| 10 Nov 2010 06:08 AM |
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The problem is that we as fabricators are allowing the manufacturers to set the wholesale sheet stock price and the retail price. Until we tell them no, they will continue to do it.
At, $37 a square foot, there is absolutely no profit. Has to be a loss leader.
Are you going to stop selling the LG product? |
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KCWOOD
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| 10 Nov 2010 10:58 AM |
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LG says they are just trying to get back market share because Corian and Formica has taken them over with their low ball pricing.
I will keep selling LG... but those guys need to understand, we need material the box stores do not have. It was great for a long time for a Lowes shopper to appear at your door, knowing what they wanted, and i was able to show them material they had not seen. Made a sell, 100% of the time on that. I have a friend/ past customer who's kids are looking to buy Mocha Granite. I'm sending them to Lowes... hell, I'm not going to lower my price $700 PH****em
I was told the Fabricators pays the same for sheets as i do
I was told all the Lowes fabs have not said a word about the cut in price.
I don't know how the Lowes sells works.. if LG gets a cut, Lowes gets a cut, and the fab gets paid the same per square foot... Maybe that's it... the fab just gets per ft fab fee... if that's the case, then LG is setting the price and the rest of the solid surface world feels the effect, because the tail just started to wag the dog. |
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David Gerard
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| 10 Nov 2010 03:04 PM |
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Recently I too experienced a Lowes cutthroat loss on a job. Lowes is 80 miles away from this customer and I am only......2. I received a call from the fab shop who got the job offering me the job. I was able to learn what the real costs were. Made me real suspicious on what the LG pricing was to Lowes fabricators. I was told by the rep that we all receive the same pricing. I think Kelsey nailed it when he explained to me that Lowes beefed up the cabinet cost to make the tops look less expensive.
Would any Lowes fabricators here step up and set us non Lowes guys straight?
Im all for competition....if it's fair. I get tired having to explain to a lost customer how I suspect they got screwed and wishing them joy with their POS
single drop edge hardly sanded, hope the sucker doesn't break counter top.
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| insomnia crossed with dyslexia and atheist beliefs may lead one to lay awake all night wondering if there really is a "Dog" |
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Andy Graves
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| 10 Nov 2010 03:06 PM |
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I don't believe for one second that a contracted Lowes fabricator pays the same for material. There is no way.
I would love to buy a top to see what it looks like when it's all done. It has to look horrible, doesn't it? |
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Brian Stone
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| 10 Nov 2010 03:48 PM |
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My past employer fabricates for Lowes. At the time I wasn't really involved with purchasing so I can't speak for the material costs. I can say that they still did a fine job fabricating though. You have to be set up for volume and have the process very streamlined or you're going to lose your ass. You also need to make sure that you're getting all of the info up front and make sure that everything is signed off on or you're going to be eating the cost of every single mistake. |
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William Turner
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| 10 Nov 2010 04:09 PM |
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I don't know how the rest of the Lowes are doing but the new one they opened up here in the Hi Desert just shut their doors and let 80 people go. We may hear in the nest week or so about how to get special order materials from other stores. Feell sorry for the people who lost their jobs with no warning. |
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William @ TNC Word for the day - LIQUIDITY
Definition - Liquidity is when you look at your retirement fund and wet your pants |
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Bill Wolle
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| 10 Nov 2010 04:23 PM |
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I do not know the current set up. I think in the past, if you fabricated LG for Lowes, all you got was labor. Lowes "bought" and paid for the tops from LG, LG shipped you the material, you did the fab and install and billed LG for the labor, at pre-determined rates. I was never involved, that is what was explained to me by a fab I know that was involved on the east coast. This was about 2 - 3 years ago. |
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Tom M
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| 10 Nov 2010 04:55 PM |
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I think it important to note the difference in the fabrication process, as Brian said. You can really save a huge chunk of money in a cell based, production line method of fabrication. You also need to scrupulously follow your limitations. If you are set up and priced so a three inch splash is part of the deal because it comes out the same sheet as the deck, then any change to that becomes a necessary extra charge.
I would imagine it really ties your hands in unusual depth jobs, or other situations that deviate from the norm.
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
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| 10 Nov 2010 06:15 PM |
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Posted By Andy Graves on 10 Nov 2010 10:06 AM
I would love to buy a top to see what it looks like when it's all done. It has to look horrible, doesn't it? Andy: No, it does not. Fabricators who are getting beat on price love to believe that the job they lost will turn out to be crap for the consumer. I'm certain the poo-bahs at Lowes have thought of this. They know the work can't be crap either. When you are as big as Lowes and/or Home Depot, buying material by the traincar, you can throw some weight around. I'd do the exact same thing if I were them. I'd squish us like bugs. Joe |
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Travis Harper
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| 10 Nov 2010 06:27 PM |
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I am not certain how Lowes does it but I do work for the big orange and when they do stupid stuff like this it really doesnt affect me all that much. Usually I have to eat some of the promo and HD eats the rest. Sometimes they dont ask us to eat any of it.
Quality of work. We do the best possible work we can no matter what company we are doing it for. My fab guys dont ever know if its an HD job or a retail job. They just know what I expect as far as quality goes.
Price has nothing to do with workmanship. |
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| Travis <br>CounterWise, Inc. |
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Andy Graves
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| 10 Nov 2010 10:36 PM |
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I know the company that works for the home centers around here and have seen the tops. They may be doing the same quality for all their tops, but that means that all their tops are crap.
Quality has everything to do with cost. I can make a countertop cheap, but I am not going to be able to do all the things I typically do. That is just the reality of the job. |
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Andy Graves
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| 10 Nov 2010 11:31 PM |
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Joe,
Are you suggesting that the poorly crafted countertops are getting top dollar. Most customers that shop on price, do so knowing they are not going to get the best. That's just reality.
It's the same for cars. BMW cost more than a Kia...for a reason. |
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Tom M
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| 11 Nov 2010 12:27 AM |
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I am sure that reasonably good quality tops can com eout of a cell based production line, but, with all due respect, it won't be a custom top. |
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C.S. Lewis |
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KCWOOD
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| 11 Nov 2010 03:04 AM |
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Posted By Kowboy on 09 Nov 2010 07:12 PM
Kelsey:
There is no way LG isn't discounting the material. If I had the Lowe's fabrication account and they waltzed in and told me I was eating fifteen or so a foot, I'd say see ya after a few other well chosen words.
Your rep is lying or being lied to.
Joe Joe, you know nothing of my rep, one of the best there is. |
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Brian Stone
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| 11 Nov 2010 12:39 PM |
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Posted By Tom M on 10 Nov 2010 07:27 PM
I am sure that reasonably good quality tops can com eout of a cell based production line, but, with all due respect, it won't be a custom top.
This is the thing to remember. When you're dealing with the box stores 95% of the work is straight, l-shape, or u-shape. If you're doing full height splash, super fancy edges, bump outs, bump ins, or inlays, it's usually not for the big box store customer. Also, keep in mind that the super low advertised price is the starting price, not the final price on most jobs. |
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KCWOOD
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| 11 Nov 2010 04:54 PM |
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Brian, thing is... with the 6 colors LG is offering, the starting price is damn near the selling price. |
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