ok... I know we all have run into this at some time or another. I am doing all the vanities and tops in 2 different houses.  One house for example has 1-74" vanity LG -Phobus 1- 79" vanity Tamboro, 1-80" vanity mocha granite,  then a laundry room 146" straight w/ 4" BS sugar maple, then a Island in the kitchen 26 x 74 harvest. 

The other house will be about as bad... almost 45% unused material with 3 colors.

Do you guys still go by the sq ft here or do you add a PITA charge too.  I cannot recall having this much leftovers on a job.  I know... I will have all this wonderful material left over to sell vanities with...  I'll stack it right on top of the other vanity material I have had sitting for years...

Kelsey,

Dude! You are the luckiest guy in the world! You could fall in crap and come out smelling like a rose! Youre old buddy Lenny is in China. I can only do container quantities, but if you guys like I can make those sheets in any width and length you desire in acrylic or polyblend!

I can even fab them here and put the bowls in so you get the install! Please advise!

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 06 Sep 2010 01:30 PM
ok... I know we all have run into this at some time or another. I am doing all the vanities and tops in 2 different houses.  One house for example has 1-74" vanity LG -Phobus 1- 79" vanity Tamboro, 1-80" vanity mocha granite,  then a laundry room 146" straight w/ 4" BS sugar maple, then a Island in the kitchen 26 x 74 harvest. 

The other house will be about as bad... almost 45% unused material with 3 colors.

Do you guys still go by the sq ft here or do you add a PITA charge too.  I cannot recall having this much leftovers on a job.  I know... I will have all this wonderful material left over to sell vanities with...  I'll stack it right on top of the other vanity material I have had sitting for years...

Kelsey:
 
Any shop with their profits stacked against the walls is on the way to bankruptcy. Anything stacked has to be paid for in advance by customers. When you eventually sell it, if ever, the material on that job is free and you make more money not recover money you should have pocketed in the first place.

With the exception of regular high-volume customers, every job no matter the size must be profitable.

Joe

Joe,

So as a distributor, when I have to order a full skid of material for your one sheet order it is okay to charge you the profits I should make on the full skid? Boy do I like you business model!

Posted By Kowboy on 06 Sep 2010 07:53 PM

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 06 Sep 2010 01:30 PM
ok... I know we all have run into this at some time or another. I am doing all the vanities and tops in 2 different houses.  One house for example has 1-74" vanity LG -Phobus 1- 79" vanity Tamboro, 1-80" vanity mocha granite,  then a laundry room 146" straight w/ 4" BS sugar maple, then a Island in the kitchen 26 x 74 harvest. 

The other house will be about as bad... almost 45% unused material with 3 colors.

Do you guys still go by the sq ft here or do you add a PITA charge too.  I cannot recall having this much leftovers on a job.  I know... I will have all this wonderful material left over to sell vanities with...  I'll stack it right on top of the other vanity material I have had sitting for years...

Kelsey:
 
Any shop with their profits stacked against the walls is on the way to bankruptcy. Anything stacked has to be paid for in advance by customers. When you eventually sell it, if ever, the material on that job is free and you make more money not recover money you should have pocketed in the first place.

With the exception of regular high-volume customers, every job no matter the size must be profitable.

Joe

 Joe, do you think I should call the customers and tell them I can't do their work because it is throwing me one more step towards bankruptcy.

Or the only other solution is is to set a 30 sq ft minimum for each vanity, yep that should do it. By golly Joe, you are a genius! Thanks for the idea!!

Kelsey,
Is there any way you can talk to the consumer and explain the rare use of the material color to explain a higher price? Or would they be willing to buy the remainder of the material to "keep it in their garage and off their neighbors tops" to keep it rare? Not sure but maybe you and your silver tongue can work some creative selling here. Maybe.

Kelsey,

Youre response to Joe had me in stitches! I was drinking some Beer and I laughed so hard it flew out of my nose!

Bill Wolle,

I kinda think the customer wont buy the extra material to keep it off the market, unless its Bill Gates or some eccentric mofo like me!

Kelsey,

We are going to distribution big time. Can  all you concerned fabnetters send me some specialty sizes the 800 pound gorilla and other big boyz dont offer?If I get alot of hits for specialty sizes of a particular size I will feed up the food chain!

That way you need not order a container, its a stock item, ming bai ma? (CHinese fr is it clear)!

Hey, just thinkin out loud.

Bill....  My post was just a curious question as to what others do if they encounter this.

While Kowboys post made no sense to me, you have to order what you need, and the job size is the job size. My question was more for the people that price their jobs by the square footage.. such as the box store fabs.

I rarely even list square footage on a job. My customers want to know cost, many don't even want to know that, they just want the job done.

 

Pricing can be as complicated as you want or as simple as you want and it depends on a number of factors where there is no 'correct' answer.

Right now we quote by the square foot with additional charges for upgraded edges, cutouts, sinks, and backsplash. There is a minimum square footage charge included in that. We eat the cost of the material if someone orders a 76" vanity. We keep track of inventory though so that if someone in the future orders a 48" vanity we don't have to order material.

In the perfect world you would be able to go to a customer after a job has been quoted and say "I'm sorry, we quoted a 68" top for you and you actually need a 74" top so I'm going to have to order a full slab of material instead of a half slab. That's going to be an additional $400." We all know that will never fly...other than Joe I guess.

Kelsey,
There is no "works every time" answer to your question. After working for 2 different distributors and a trade association and talking and working with hundreds of fabricators, I can honestly tell you that many (not all) large fabricators used to price per square or linear foot and keep the remainder for future sale. Many of these companies also stocked material (which kind of is outside Joe's comment) so there was not any extra exposure. Many (not all) of the smaller 1 or 2 man shops could not afford to do that and had to devise a price that covered some of the extra material they ended up with. I knew some that "traded" material with other shops and now there are even a few companies that help that material exchange along.

I knew what you were trying to get to with your original post, sorry for the side track. The real answer is that you must determine what will work best for you in your market and go from there.

Jon, what does nesting have to do with this? Do I not understand nesting?

We keep a good inventory system so we can sell the material later.

Sheet sizes are too big. They should be 120" long rather than 12'. Who installs 12' long countertops anyway? Then provide half sheets for the vanities 48" and under. In fact a 32" x 120" would be great for us.

Andy, both distributors I used to work for used to sell 4' and 6' pieces that we cut from full sheets. When the distributor is removed from the mix, the manufacturer can not afford to or control that inventory. I am not saying right or wrong. When you remove something from the mix, sometimes there is a price to pay.

I always suffer from this question..How much a sq ft? when I say x amount of dollars...they say awesome! I need 2 sq ft ...whoah! sorry but you hafta buy the minimum, but i say with excitable enthusiasm...offer than windowsills, coffee tables, shleves...

I even  complain about the MFG's to the customer so they dont think its me price gouging, I wont tell them that though..(oops I just did)..the MFg's have no problem adding on a cut charge or out right refusing to chop a slab...

I hafta turn down vanities in certain materials if they wont take one of my remnants or cheap solid surface brands. Its just not that worth it to me to hope somebody buys that other piece of Avonite glass series...and if ya hold it too long it changes color and can now cost you even more if it dont match the sample

You ever try to sell a  vanity in Avonite Glass series...jeez  The customer has gotta want it real bad, thank God my customers are like countertop junkies or I don't know what i would do...I scratch that itch

This kind of applies here to some of the comments. (even to Kelsey's original question) I learned this point many years ago about business...

You can have any 2 of the 3 but NEVER all 3 at the same time...
Price
Service
Quality (size of sheets might fit here)
Pick the 2 that are most valuable to you.

BTW, this is for consumers as well.

Kelsey,
Those are some crappy measurements.  Vanities are a bit more prone to this problem than a kitchen, except the kitchens you discribe.  I have charged for the balance of material when it requires purchasing a full sheet just to get 3 or 4 more inches.  In my area, LG no longer offers strip material.  Staron is the same.

In situations like yours I would figure actual sq ft. of job.  Add a certain margin for extra pieces that may not be calculated in the sq. ft. charge.  ie. edges, seam strap, cove insert or whatever.   Figure a fair wast factor.  Every job has some waste, even if you are, Jon.  After you have figured the actual material you will need including wast factor.  Charge a simple material only fee for the balance.

23" x 80" =13 sq. ft. (if you round it up to the nearest ft.)  For the sake of an example, lets say that you do 2" stacked edges.   80" x 2.25 x 2 = 2.5 sq. ft.

Now lets face it.  Counter tops are seldom exactly 72"  or 144".  When it is all said and done, lets figure 10% (20 or 30%, whatever your historically comfortable with) waste factor.  I don't like it, but I can live with a 20% waste on a poor yield job.

Counter top:  13 sq. ft.
Edge:             2.5                   total = 15.5
Waste 20%:                                        3.1  
                                                          18.6

From a 30 sq. ft. sheet.  That leaves you with 11.4 ft to charge extra for.

I think many distributors charge for a premiun for 1/2 sheets or don't offer them at all.

All things considered, as Kowboy stated, a job must be profitable.  Charge a reasonable recovery fee for the un-used material and let the customer decide if they really like the color choice.

Well I guess I'm 2 cents poorer now, cause I just gave you mine.

Jon, how can nesting save you from having any scraps in a situation like this?

Johnny C

Posted By William Wolle on 07 Sep 2010 12:21 PM
This kind of applies here to some of the comments. (even to Kelsey's original question) I learned this point many years ago about business...

You can have any 2 of the 3 but NEVER all 3 at the same time...
Price
Service
Quality (size of sheets might fit here)
Pick the 2 that are most valuable to you.

BTW, this is for consumers as well.

The companies that are successful offer all three. Coca Cola does, so does Pepsi. You can too if you market your product right.

Johnny... You are right, noone offers strips any longer, plus LG charges $50 cut fee.

I have always added the additional material cost onto a job, if the material will not be used, especially in this case.  You called it a recovery fee, I call it a PITA fee (pain in the a**). 

My point was, lets say you are a box store fab, and it is sq ft only, you have no option of upcharge. Do you take the hit over and over.. ouch!!  I hear that Lowes is going to be selling LG HiMacs at a drastically lower price in a few weeks. Bet the fabs sheet price won't decline with the price drop...   

Someone must have spiked Jon's coffee with a Starbucks double shot... he really didn't make any sense did he?? Jon...  you ok???

Posted By Andy Graves on 07 Sep 2010 02:03 PM

Posted By William Wolle on 07 Sep 2010 12:21 PM
This kind of applies here to some of the comments. (even to Kelsey's original question) I learned this point many years ago about business...

You can have any 2 of the 3 but NEVER all 3 at the same time...
Price
Service
Quality (size of sheets might fit here)
Pick the 2 that are most valuable to you.

BTW, this is for consumers as well.

The companies that are successful offer all three. Coca Cola does, so does Pepsi. You can too if you market your product right.

Bill...   In my case you are wrong.  I don't use the word price, I replace it with value. And yes i give them all three, value, service,and quality. It's a package with me.