I would think that each manufacturer would have a set standard for their own product. This would be applicable to slab thickness and whether it was acceptable or not.

Does Radianz have a documented tolerance?

My supplier Unique Granite, out of Owensboro, Ky gets the seams almost invisible (Gorilla+Integra Adhesive)  and  being able to feel different thicknesses of material on the deck would be unacceptable.  Even if there was a slight thickness variation, they dry fit the seam in the shop and make sure the bottom of the seam on the front edge is machined flat.

We probably have more variation in ss than in the quartz...

After giving this some thought, are you suggesting the top and bottom of the material is not even because of the varying thickness of the quartz?

No Andy, not so much a thickness thing, but rather slight warpage or a seam that "moved" during seam glue up.  Is anything acceptable in the field?  I guess I am looking for some sort of measurable quantity to show what is consided acceptable in the industry.  Of Course I know what is acceptable to one customer is not acceptable to another.  I think MIA lists an acceptable measurement for slab warpage but couldn't find anything on seam tolerance on the surface.

Hi All,

The last Breton factory I worked in had an internal thickness tolerance specification of  +/- 1.5 mm.

What that means in a worst case scenario is a 3mm difference ( 0.118 inches which is almost 0.12 inches) or almost 1/8 of an inch (which is 0.125 inches).  That would require Gorilla clamps and a good caring fabricator (like you fabnet guru's) as Bill so astutely pointed out. Most of the time you will encounter differences less than the worst case scenario.

Now I can get that thickness more uniform, even to within micron tolerances suitable for struts on the space shuttle! Question is are you willing to pay for that? I dont think so.

Q: What would be an acceptable thickness tolerance for you as a fabricator? And what extra cost would you be willing to pay for that improvement? What do you  fabrication guru's think? As a manufacturing consultant I'd be interested to hear that input!

Lenny, I don't think anyone is willing to pay more for the improvement. What I see happening is you providing certain manufacturer's with the information to obtain a flatter product, and them outselling other manu's because of it. The increased volume would cover the added cost by the manu. What say you?

Norm.

I expected that answer as I typed. Of course you want a better product and not have to pay for it. I want money to rain from the sky, and people in hell want ice water but they dont get it.

 All joking and kidding aside, I will put that on my to do list. I will get you more affordable  E stone, just as good quality, and better thickness control just for you!  Because I like you, and I can capture some market share! What thickness tolerance do you need. Geez guy, just answer 1 simple question! How hard is that?

BTW I was looking at old photos yesterday, so mama saw you and your lovely wife Susan. I said..wo de peng you!  (that means my friends). I also said hen hao ren (very good people)!

Mama cant speak any english, except for hello and sank you (thank you) so our conversations are mostly me speaking Chinese augmented by handsigns! But you and Susan are famous in China now!

Lenny.. I bet Norm has many handsigns....  yikes!

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 03 Sep 2010 04:04 PM
Lenny.. I bet Norm has many handsigns....  yikes!

Kelsey, That made me smile.  I just imagined a one fingered hand sign from Norm,  that I hope means....I have a good point!

All joking aside, Norm knows I am just kidding around with him in a good natured way.

Thickness tolerances wouldn't move the meter much with quartz fabricators because they are used to dealing with granite which can be all over the board.  Most guys gauge profiled edges regardless , especially on closed profiles, so tighter tolerances would just mean the stubbing wheel wasn't taking anything off when it ran.

We got some ceaserstone once that was bad.  The gorilla grips earned thier keep that day. We were outsourcing fab at the time and they did NOT gauge the seamed/profiled edges.  We had to blend the bottom edge on sight.  fun fun fun..

Thanks, thats the type of info and feedback I was seeking. And its the type of thing you can only get from astute fabrication warriors like the fine fellows on this site.

Thanx Chris, youre the best!

The tolerance that Zodiaq specs for acceptable slab warping is 1/8" over 5'.

Hi Brian,

Thanx for the relpy. What is the spec for side to side warp if I may be so bold to ask!

I may be mistaken. I tried to look up the exact specs and all I could find on the Zodiaq website is the master specifications for Zodiaq applications. That form says the following:


A. Install components plumb and level, in accordance with approved shop drawings and product installation details.
   1. Tops:
     a. Flat and true to within 1/8" (3 mm) of a flat surface over a 10' length.
   


This is my favorite. I can't imagine getting away with an 1/8" wide seam.

B. Form field joints using manufacturer’s recommended adhesive, with joint widths no greater than 1/8" (3 mm) in finished work.

Geez Brian, nothing against DuPonT but thats all double speak!

That sounds to me like some DuPont marketing Dweeb taking SS specs and applying them to E STONE! Now some of you know  me well, Im an old monster that takes no bullcrap from anyone!

For example for SS, I dont care the length warp too much. but the side to side warp freaks fabbers out.

Now Estone, Like granite isnt as forgiving as SS. That flatness tolerance needs to be immaculate!

1/8 inch...Geez! These guys (manufacturers) are  freaking idiots!

Oh just wait a bit on me, I can do that better!

Hey guys,

First of all, the 1/8" spec quoted is clearly an installation tolerance determining the flatness of the installation site and should not be considered by the info presented as a sheet flatness tolerance.

Second, Lenny you are correct, much of it was copy and past from the ss spec.

For the manufacture specs you are looking for Lenny, you need to find the specs for "as delivered" material. I used to have them from warranty and warehouse days with Parksite but have long ago gotten rid of them. Very few fabricator or installers will have those specs. Distributors will but will probably not part with them.

Please make sure to debate the correct specs before any gorillas are attacked.

The 1/8" wide seam is a maximum designed to protect fabricators. None of you would allow a seam that wide, but what is acceptable? "Harry says 1/32" but Bobby says 1/16" an Timmy says 1/64" and Bill says use a Gorilla clamp and make the seam go away. What should the manufacturer require? (a warning, this debate about correct width once started, may never end as new technology will make tighter and tighter seams possible) All are good if the custmer accepts them and all meet the manufacturers minimum spec as written, so why not leave it as is?

Posted By Lenny E on 07 Sep 2010 12:07 PM
For example for SS, I dont care the length warp too much. but the side to side warp freaks fabbers out.

It's not as big of a deal on solid surface for a couple reasons. The first is that the SS is easier to bend. The second is that warpage the length of a SS sheet isn't as big of a deal because you don't usually have seams that run the length of the slab.

Any kind of warpage on ES sucks because you could have a seam running in any direction. That's what happens when you get to work with material that's wider than 30".

It's just a pain in the ass to bend the stuff too. It can be done but there's a good chance that the adhesive holding the seam together is going to pop.

Brian, try the Integra adhesive made for e-stone. I have pulled some nasty curl out with a Gorilla clamp and that stuff holds like iron.