Yeah Brian  we heard someone skipped class alot...  lol

try this again........

Darren, don't forget to hit the "insert" tab after you upload. It should appear on the post under your words before you hit "submit"

Weird, the upload button does'nt work in Google Chrome, but works in Internet explorer..

Heat tape around slide in ranges or not? Been told both ways. The Avonite tape is awesome..that bid red WARRANTY VOID IF REMOVED sure puts the fear of God in some customers! If it wasn't so expensive I would try to use it on all my jobs

If the small piece of solid surface behind the slide in range is hard seamed I would say yes, if it is just siliconed I would say no, but that's just me. Also if it is hard seamed you need corner blocks just like a cooktop cutout.

Posted By Norm Walters on 30 Aug 2010 06:59 PM
If the small piece of solid surface behind the slide in range is hard seamed I would say yes, if it is just siliconed I would say no, but that's just me. Also if it is hard seamed you need corner blocks just like a cooktop cutout.

Darren, I never did hard seam the slide-in cooktop, I just figured in the material, cut it out of a solid piece. Then I started reading how others did it on here, using a silicone soft seam. I tried it on a job, and the filler piece applied with silicone looked just as good.  I really did not feel a soft seam took anything away from the appearance nor the quality of my job.

Listen to Norm.. he is the second best fabricator on here plus an all around good guy...

perfect. Thanks for the confirmation. Did use cooktop blocks in the corners for all my hard seams with heat tape. Last job I did I siliconed the slide in seams without corner blocks and without heat tape, mostly because I ran out of heat tape. Looked fine, and cut down the build time greatly.

Darren:

“The use of Avonite Surfaces’ Thermo-Flow tape is REQUIRED for prevention of damage in cook top cut outs and slide-in ranges due to excessive heat.” Installation 3.1
 
Avonite and I agree on 1” tube steel for countertop cantilever frames. See Installation 3.3. You can get back under warranty if you tape the slide-in cut out and corbel the cantilever.

Avonite agrees with Kesley and Brian as to shop fabrication of as large a piece as possible.

Joe

P.S.:

Make sure the tape covers the deck as much as possible and still be covered by the appliance flange. Leave a note for the appliance installers that the appliance must sit on its feet, NOT THE FLANGE. Errrr....

used the heat tape and good idea about the note. Do you guys test fit cooktops, slide-ins-provided they are unpacked and/or near the opening? I do but leave the levelling upto the homeowner. Been a few times where screws and nubs on the side of the range has caught the edge of the counter, not to mention the plastic flanges on the front. Easier to modify there, than have a call from an angry customer later saying their stove does'nt fit 

what you can't see pictured is the long seam under the overhang As mentioned this was my second solid surface build. It was a very late night (early morning?) finishing this and when I had it flipped upside down, I reversed the finished end and the seam support-brain lapse. At the time I did not know enough about capabilities of solid surface, and did not realize the seam support could be routered off and modified into a FE, and same with the other finished end to replace it with a seam support. Even when I add the corbels, would this top be under warranty with the seam on the overhang side?

I did not put a seam through the sinks, but for future, can you (within reason)? For the sink area, I turned the sheet on a 45 seamed the two triangle  pieces from the offcut behind the sink and added another piece  to get my bartop width-if that makes sense. Would this be the correct layout?

Hope you don't mind all the questions, and thanks for taking the time to answer them!

Darren, I will go ahead and fit the slide-in stove if it is onsite. Too many homeowners or contractors will lift it up and slide it in, with the weight supported by the top. If they take it out,after I put it in,  it will still be the same height going back in.
Most cooktops, no...

Sounds like you fabricated it like I would have. And yes, I have been told many times it's ok to run a seam through a sink, from every manufacturer.

I believe Andy posted a setup like this once where he placed a "euroseam" in between the sinks.

Darren:

As fabricators/installers, we are always faced with the tradeoff of how much "extra" work do we do in order to avoid a callback. Test fitting an on-site cooktop is a no-brainer. If you've seen it go in the hole, you can tell that to your customer before you return. However, sometimes even that isn't enough. I had to install a cooktop for a do-it-yourself executive because he couldn't seem to keep the heat tape from showing! Errrrr...

Back in my plastic laminate days I had a customer insist his stove wouldn't fit into the opening I provided. Of course he hadn't leveled the stove. He was trying to shove a parallelogram into a square. It slid right in after leveling.

Of course, you can't charge happy customers for thier stupidity unless you would like to purchase unhappy customers with the money they give you.

If you add the corbels, you aren't going to need the warranty so the issue is moot.

I put supported seams through sinks regardless of the manufacturer's recommendations. What can be a stronger seam support than a seamed undermount bowl? They can make all kinds of goofy rules. We're the ones who have to watch yield and profits.

The correct layout is that which reduces seams, increases yield, reduces fabrication and installation time and makes you money.

Joe

Sometimes you won't be able to meet warranty standards. Be sure that the cabinets are perfectly flat and level is better. Then you counter will be well supported and it will eliminate most of the warranty issues.

Back before all the warranty things we have to do now, there were thousands of tops installed without issue.

Posted By Andy Graves on 07 Sep 2010 10:14 PM

Back before all the warranty things we have to do now, there were thousands of tops installed without issue.

Andy:

I must respectfully disagree.

My DuPont rep told me that after DuPont "decertified" everyone and only "receritfied" only trained fabricators, they lost half their fabricators but the warranty calls dropped by 80%.

Joe

Joe, If you sold your business years ago, how can you still have a "Dupont rep" ? or were you talking about your rep from many years ago?  Just trying to get a time frame when Dupont did all this...
Just wondering....

I can't remember the exact year, but it was the same year as the ISSFA regional meeting in New Orleans, I think 1999 or 2000? Got into deep water with DuPont, because it was more about how much material you sold than how good you are. That's all I'm going to say.

Hi Dani,

How are you? Good to see you! Its been ages. For those of you newbies who haven’t had the pleasure to meet Dani, he is an industry legend! He is also a master fabricator and inventor who develops products for other fabricators to use.

His Dani Clamp system is unique, and offers many benefits over standard clamps. He is an guru in polishing/finishing and his system is not only easy to use, it gives great results EVERY time. He has lots of other interesting products out there also. If you arent familiar with them, take a look, it will be well worth your time!

I don’t want to derail this thread, but I just had to give a positive shout out to Dani!

Speaking of which...
Dani, I just got a PDF file for installation of Karran "Edge" sinks into lam/solid surface. On he solid surface 'page' there is a picture of a fabricator using DANI CLAMPS!!!!

Hi Lenny,

I would say your a guru also. Got to love the Artifacts the color was beautiful polished. I can remember polishing a sample for Chuck Sawyer and he carried it around for years. I bet you miss the little dinner down the road from the IP plant.

All the best to you and your wife
Dani

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 09 Sep 2010 08:25 AM
Joe, If you sold your business years ago, how can you still have a "Dupont rep" ? or were you talking about your rep from many years ago?  Just trying to get a time frame when Dupont did all this...
Just wondering....

Kelsey:

I find your fascination with my business career flattering.

When I finished the day at Corian school and went to the bar with the guys afterwards, Janet Reno had just set the Branch Dividians on fire in Waco, Texas. That's in '94? I won the DuPont Rewards for Growth award two years in a row before selling that business in 2001. I was driving back to Toledo to finish up my month of free work, a condition of the sale, when the 9/11 events came on the radio. Funny how you remember this stuff.

I went to work for another fabricator as the Service Manager after I sold the business and we moved to Michigan to advance my wife's career. (Excellent choice, as its turned out.) That lasted until the economy started slowing. I collected some unemployment insurance until I got my Michigan Builders License in '06.(?) I joined servcemagic doing fabrication and repairs. I don't solicit fabrication work any longer but if the job pays right, I'll do it.

I go a ways back in this business and feel priviledged to have met Don Slocum, the inventor of Corian, and Gill from Avonite at the first ISSFA trade shows. I'm a fan of history. Wise fabricators will know where they've been so they may know where they're going.

Joe