Need some help with a large island layout. The color is LG Sugar Maple. Island measures 122"x36". I have one set of parallign. I could do the one long seam but would have to clamp with a mix of the parallign and glue blocks/spring clamps-sounds like a lot of sanding, and hesitant about a 10' seam. I have done a 8' seam with just glue blocks and spring clamps-took a while to get it level. the other alternative would be 4 seams-possibly better seams, better use of material for the rest of kitchen, but more seam supports, more notching of the build up, and a longer process. Maybe it would be best to do a combination of the two Thoughts?

Darren,
Some questions...
Is there a sink or cooktop in the island? How about overhang? Where? How much?
With a little more info we can help better.

Bill

You could just add the six inches to the side of the larger piece. It you don't have enough seam clamps, jut cut the six inch strip in half so that you can attach them separate. This process will only add a short six inch seam support, plus the edge buildup will be going through the seam for extra support.

Even with a bunch of seam clamps, ten foot seams are difficult to pull together and make nice. They are just too long.

Having a sink would make a difference. If there's no large sink you could always do four 36" seams instead of the one long seam.

Posted By Darren Hardy on 27 Aug 2010 07:42 AM
Need some help with a large island layout. The color is LG Sugar Maple. Island measures 122"x36". I have one set of parallign. I could do the one long seam but would have to clamp with a mix of the parallign and glue blocks/spring clamps-sounds like a lot of sanding, and hesitant about a 10' seam. I have done a 8' seam with just glue blocks and spring clamps-took a while to get it level. the other alternative would be 4 seams-possibly better seams, better use of material for the rest of kitchen, but more seam supports, more notching of the build up, and a longer process. Maybe it would be best to do a combination of the two Thoughts?

Darren:

I would cross cut the sheets at 36" and make seams every 30" to get to 122" even though this means 144" of seams instead of 122". The seams are much easier to make and they fool your eye better. I'd adhere the center one in the field too. It's much easier to carry a 36" x 60" and a 36" x 62" than to carry that 122" monster.

With all due respect to Bill, I'd do it this way regardless of sink or cutout placement.

Joe

Posted By Kowboy on 27 Aug 2010 11:35 AM

I'd adhere the center one in the field too. It's much easier to carry a 36" x 60" and a 36" x 62" than to carry that 122" monster.

36" x 122" is nothing after installing granite islands. An island that size probably isn't more than 175 lbs.

I'm getting used to the heavy granite stuff now. Sometimes when I'm walking through the laminate shop I'll see a guy about to pick up an 8' long top by himself. I want to run over and help but then I realize that the top only weighs about 70lbs...the same as a 2' granite top.

Thanks for all your help. There isn't any cutouts in the island, just a big rectangle going on a 24x101"cab with 10 1/2" overhang all around. this means I will have 12 1/2" build (I'll use 1"MDF) all around. In-between the seam supports do you guys notch the build up or use 1/2" siliconed to the seam supports with the 1" in between? I usually notch the build-up but is it acceptable with the 1/2" on the seam supports when there is overhang? I'm leaning toward the 4 seams in the shop and get help with the carry-in.

oh ya one more thing somewhat related. The customer's second choice was an Avontie studio color. Even though the sheets cost more, would you adjust your price accordingly to avoid the seams?

Have to agree, 36" long pieces seames every 30".

Darren:

A 12 1/2" MDF substrate below a 10 1/2" cantilever supports nothing. Furthermore, it is solid underlayment which voids most solid surface warranties.

Screw about (9) 1" x 32" square tube steel pieces perpendicular to the cabinets. Space them about 16" on center, but cheat to avoid your seam supports if you have to. Since the tube runs parallel to the supports, no notching is required.

Steel is cheap, incredibly strong and keeps you in warranty. Knock the meaness off the edges, clean it with acetone and paint before install. No other underlayment is necessary.

Joe

P.S.:

Don't forget to rip a 1/4" or so off each edge of the sheets before seaming. Those edges get rolled at the factory. It's much easier to sand flat to flat than dip to dip.

Posted By Brian Stone on 27 Aug 2010 12:16 PM

Posted By Kowboy on 27 Aug 2010 11:35 AM

I'd adhere the center one in the field too. It's much easier to carry a 36" x 60" and a 36" x 62" than to carry that 122" monster.

36" x 122" is nothing after installing granite islands. An island that size probably isn't more than 175 lbs.

I'm getting used to the heavy granite stuff now. Sometimes when I'm walking through the laminate shop I'll see a guy about to pick up an 8' long top by himself. I want to run over and help but then I realize that the top only weighs about 70lbs...the same as a 2' granite top.

Brian:

It isn't only about the weight. If the seam is left for completion at install this has become a one-man installation, cutting the labor cost in half. There is also less risk to men and material with smaller lighter pieces.

Joe

Joe: Thanks for the tips. I just started to run my own shop 2 years ago and started to fabricate the same time. Previous I installed and built all kinds of countertops for the last 15 years. At the last shop I worked at it was Corian/Zodiac certified. What you say about the steel tube makes sense, but it was always solid mdf for us, actually I have never seen steel tubing used for cantilever support- we always insisted on having the customer supply brackets/corbels/posts on anything over 6" to go under the solid MDF and notched the MDF around the seam supports. I like the steel support use. Just wondering how to go about supporting the 10 1/2" on the ends of the cabinets, especially on the corners of the overhangs?

Posted By Darren Hardy on 28 Aug 2010 04:55 PM
Just wondering how to go about supporting the 10 1/2" on the ends of the cabinets, especially on the corners of the overhangs?

Darren:

Have (3) 1" x 16" square steel tubes welded between two sets of the 32"'ers and mount the "ladders" on each end of the cabinets. Have the welds ground flat. You'll have to notch your support strips because they're now perpendicular to the steel.

If you're heading to the steel fab shop anyway, consider having the whole thing welded together and ground flat. It's still cheap, strong as heck and this makes leveling your underlayment incredibly fast.


Joe

Posted By Darren Hardy on 27 Aug 2010 01:10 PM
oh ya one more thing somewhat related. The customer's second choice was an Avontie studio color. Even though the sheets cost more, would you adjust your price accordingly to avoid the seams?

You bet I would, and another thing, we use different colors and/or material on the islands all the time. Only thing about the studio, you would have to get another piece for the buildup.
The most awesome look we do is use quartz on the island. There are so many colors out there, there is something that compliments the solid surface, plus quartz is such a superior material on a work island.

Posted By Darren Hardy on 28 Aug 2010 04:55 PM
Joe: Thanks for the tips. I just started to run my own shop 2 years ago and started to fabricate the same time. Previous I installed and built all kinds of countertops for the last 15 years. At the last shop I worked at it was Corian/Zodiac certified. What you say about the steel tube makes sense, but it was always solid mdf for us, actually I have never seen steel tubing used for cantilever support- we always insisted on having the customer supply brackets/corbels/posts on anything over 6" to go under the solid MDF and notched the MDF around the seam supports. I like the steel support use. Just wondering how to go about supporting the 10 1/2" on the ends of the cabinets, especially on the corners of the overhangs?

Darren, welcome to the Fabnet.  What part of the country do you call home.?
Sounds like your shop fabricates like I do. I have done many seams in an island 3-5 and I will rip my material to 29", 1/2" off both sides. I have always had great sucess doing this.  1" MDF ...You can actually use 1/2" mdf blocks as a spacer and then go with a solid 1/2" overlay piece to cover all your seam plates. provides the same look and feel to the customer without the weight.
I have 2 sets of paraligns, so a 10ft seam would not bother me, but to use paraligns on only part and others on a 10' seam would.
kc

Posted By Kowboy on 28 Aug 2010 09:25 AM

Brian:

It isn't only about the weight. If the seam is left for completion at install this has become a one-man installation, cutting the labor cost in half. There is also less risk to men and material with smaller lighter pieces.

Joe

As long as the jobsite isn't ridiculously far from the shop I would much rather have a 36 x 120 top completely finished in the shop and carried in by two installers. The time on site would be considerably shorter and it should take less labor in the shop to finish in one piece vs finishing it on site.

Plus, a piece that's 36" x 60" is starting to get a little large for one guy to handle.

I do get what you're saying but I think for this particular top I would prefer a one piece install.

Posted By Brian Stone on 30 Aug 2010 07:57 AM

Posted By Kowboy on 28 Aug 2010 09:25 AM

Brian:

It isn't only about the weight. If the seam is left for completion at install this has become a one-man installation, cutting the labor cost in half. There is also less risk to men and material with smaller lighter pieces.

Joe

As long as the jobsite isn't ridiculously far from the shop I would much rather have a 36 x 120 top completely finished in the shop and carried in by two installers. The time on site would be considerably shorter and it should take less labor in the shop to finish in one piece vs finishing it on site.

Plus, a piece that's 36" x 60" is starting to get a little large for one guy to handle.

I do get what you're saying but I think for this particular top I would prefer a one piece install.

Brian:

I hafta agree with you. Each job depends on its circumstances.

Joe

I would not even consider bringing a island of that size into a house in 2 pieces, way to many things can happen to it. I guess though if you only had a small trailer,or truck, or no way to haul a large slab, you would have to use smaller pieces. 
 
I would make sure it was perfect before it left the shop, so I could take it in and Plop-n-drop it onto the cabinets.

Rule #1 in my training was the least we can do on-site, the better the outcome.

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 30 Aug 2010 09:19 AM
 
I would make sure it was perfect before it left the shop, so I could take it in and Plop-n-drop it onto the cabinets.

Rule #1 in my training was the least we can do on-site, the better the outcome.

I think we attended the same school.

Once again, thanks for the replies! You guys are sure a helpful bunch. I call Canada home (maritimes) and you are talking to the only employee at my shop. I would like to hire someone, but when it's your name on the finished product, it's hard to let go of complete control. I guess that will come with time as I get more use to running a shop. My wife answers the phone and I get help with carry-ins from a cabinet installer that doesn't work more than he does. Not sure if this will work, but here is a couple of pictures of my second ever Avonite build. This definitely would have been a good candidate for steel tubes. There was a post in the corner and an oak apron under the solid 1" MDF build up for support installed after. It has been two years since I installed it- no phone calls yet, but should I be concerned about the lack of support? I probably should go back and refinish it now that I'm better at sanding- and because of this job, immediately after I bought a gem sander- and a set of paraligns! Sure wish I asked your help for this material layout