Just pulled some countertops out for replacement.  The laminate was saturated with water.  It actually weighed more than solid surface, smelled like poop and the mold was a growin.

Had to clean the walls and steel before installation of the new, coved counter.

So how old were these tops?

Andy, I've pulled so many tops out that looked just like that, mostly in homes. I'm sure you didnt take the time to look, but if you looked close enough the are hundreds of tiny black bugs that live in the wet particle board, it's nasty stuff when it soaks up and never dries out. Think, if that was on a wood or particle board cabinet, now that would be and unexpected expense to uncover.

Andy:

Were the existing steel supports ADA compliant?


Joe

I didn't see any bugs, but I kept my face out of there. It was disgusting.

The steel was ADA compliant but the sink overflows were not. They intruded on the up 27" back 8" measurement. I am always amazed when companies don't choose to be ADA compliant. We make them sign a waiver that all was explained in detail the the contractor or customer chose not to be compliant.

Posted By Andy Graves on 28 Jul 2010 10:23 AM
I didn't see any bugs, but I kept my face out of there. It was disgusting.

The steel was ADA compliant but the sink overflows were not. They intruded on the up 27" back 8" measurement. I am always amazed when companies don't choose to be ADA compliant. We make them sign a waiver that all was explained in detail the the contractor or customer chose not to be compliant.

Andy:

I don't like your wavier idea a bit. The Americans with Disabilities Act is a civil right, it ain't some code thingie.

It's like you're a sign contractor and the contractor or customer hired you to install signs that say "White Bathroom Only". You tell them that you can't have bathrooms segregated by race these days, but they don't listen. You have them sign a wavier acknowledging that they can't have segregated bathrooms these days. They don't pay and you bring your wavier to court. The judge says, "Dude, you can't make signs segregating bathrooms by race and expect to be paid for them."

Joe

Good points, Joe.

Johnny C

What would you suggest Joe?

Posted By Kowboy on 28 Jul 2010 06:58 PM


It's like you're a sign contractor and the contractor or customer hired you to install signs that say "White Bathroom Only". You tell them that you can't have bathrooms segregated by race these days, but they don't listen. You have them sign a wavier acknowledging that they can't have segregated bathrooms these days. They don't pay and you bring your wavier to court. The judge says, "Dude, you can't make signs segregating bathrooms by race and expect to be paid for them."

Joe

I'm pretty sure the ability to make the signs is covered under the first amendment. Google "Fred Phelps" if you think any differently.

It's also no different than being a company that makes bongs. Everyone knows what they are for but it's still legal if you have a little waiver or sign that says that they are for tobacco use only.

Joe, just because you don't like CYA forms, it doesn't mean that they won't hold up in court if you try to enforce them.

Posted By Andy Graves on 29 Jul 2010 01:00 AM
What would you suggest Joe?

Joe would suggest that you never do the job unless it's absolutely perfect. Then a month later he would do the same thing but say that it's ok because it's what the customer wanted and they paid the bill. (see the Corian repair thread)

Andy,
Do all CA public restroom facilities have to be made ADA compliant when remodeling or just those to keep to the % standard. ie 1 potty stall out of every 5...?
Just asking, this might be a moot point in this case as it was not ADA to begin with. If it was ADA, it might have had to be such when remodeled. I might check with local code enforcement to see.

Posted By Brian Stone on 29 Jul 2010 08:53 AM

Posted By Andy Graves on 29 Jul 2010 01:00 AM
What would you suggest Joe?

Joe would suggest that you never do the job unless it's absolutely perfect. Then a month later he would do the same thing but say that it's ok because it's what the customer wanted and they paid the bill. (see the Corian repair thread)

Andy:

To answer your question, get payment in full upon contract signature. If this owner gets a complaint and has to do a do-over, he's going to try to finance it with the money he didn't pay you. 

Brian:

When have I suggested one never do a job unless it's absolutely perfect? Let me save you some time, I haven't.

I am saying that I don't believe in doing work that denies the civil rights of my fellow citizens.

I agree that readers should revisit the Corian Repair thread.

My first post was a faster and cheaper alternative and advocating to let the customer choose. In my second post, I propose the picture-on-fabnet test. In my third, I post a picture on fabnet of a repair of which I'm not ashamed viewed in its cost context.

Some will see hypocrisy, some will see a natural evolution of business practice and some will see neither or both. 

Joe

Posted By William Wolle on 29 Jul 2010 10:44 AM
Andy,
Do all CA public restroom facilities have to be made ADA compliant when remodeling or just those to keep to the % standard. ie 1 potty stall out of every 5...?
Just asking, this might be a moot point in this case as it was not ADA to begin with. If it was ADA, it might have had to be such when remodeled. I might check with local code enforcement to see.

Bill:

"Alterations to facilities, spaces or elements (including renovations) made on or after January 26, 1992, also must comply with the Standards. If you build a new facility or modify your existing one, (for example, work such as restriping the parking area, replacing the entry door or renovating the sales counter), make sure to consult the Standards and the title III regulations for the specific requirements. Renovations or modifications are considered to be alterations when they affect the usability of the element or space. For example, installing a new display counter, moving walls in a sales area, replacing fixtures, carpet or flooring, and replacing an entry door. However, simple maintenance, such as repainting a wall is not considered an alteration by the ADA.

Many communities also have State or local accessibility codes enforced by local building inspectors. When a local accessibility code exists, you must follow both the code and the ADA requirements."
 
More here.

I designed the right side of this top at 35 1/2" for ADA compliance.

Joe

On this job, I am not the GC. It is not my responsibility to second guess the contractor. I merely suggest and let them choose. I just make sure they understand it is their decision, not mine.

In this case, they may have an ADA compliant restroom but I am not aware.

I am not in to all this save the earth stuff and babysitting. I believe the customer is right and they decide what they want. I also believe that if they break law and code, they need to bear the consequences, not me.

Joe,
I know that. I also know that not 100% of everything has to be ADA. There are numbers of fixtures that have to be ADA per people usage.

Andy,
I did not mean to imply otherwise. Sorry for the confusion.

Posted By William Wolle on 29 Jul 2010 12:44 PM
Joe,
I know that. I also know that not 100% of everything has to be ADA. There are numbers of fixtures that have to be ADA per people usage.

Andy,
I did not mean to imply otherwise. Sorry for the confusion.

Hey Bill,

I was just talking in general.  No problem.

If I am correct, all public restrooms must meet ADA if altered.