Andy Graves
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| 08 Apr 2010 09:30 AM |
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Who levels and creates a flat surface for the shower pan. When people order, we tell the homeowner or contractor the floor must be perfectly flat and level.
When we get there, they never are. What the hell do I tell customers to make them understand what needs to be done. Or, should we just plan on doing it ourselves?
What do you all do?
Thanks in advance,
Andy
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Brian Stone
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| 08 Apr 2010 01:27 PM |
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I'd probably tell the homeowner that it is their responsibility to make sure that the floor is flat and level before you arrive for the install, whether that means that they need to do it themselves or have the contractor do it. Then say that if you get there for the install and it is not flat and level there will be an additional charge of $XXX for you to do it. |
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Kelsey Crisp
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| 08 Apr 2010 01:59 PM |
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I say it is our responsibility to deal with the situation as we find it. We don't have a final quote on a job until we see it, measure it, template it. If something isn't right, we inform the buyer our cost to make it right. If they chose to have someone else perform that task, fine, but that is where my contract says I will charge xyz dollars if something is not right.
Most homeowners hire us to do the work. If it is structual, rot, sag.. they understand we are not carpenters. But just to level our product... i feel it is my job.
Are you saying level with shims or out of whack so much you use thinset? |
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Dani Homrich
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| 08 Apr 2010 04:51 PM |
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I would never trust anyone to level a floor for a shower pan. The pan is the most important part of a shower and is the first item to be installed. If it fails from an unlevel floor it is a nightmare to fix and the customer would come back to you as the installer not the builder. I always plan on leveling the floor with thinset and I know the job is done right, because I would never trust someone else to do the job correctly. It is my shower job and my reputation. One of the 2 jobs I did last year was a Steam shower in solid surface. My customer knew from my reputation on past jobs that my install would not fail, because I found a way to protect the solid surface from the Steam. I would recommend if you are installing shower pans plan on doing your own floor leveling and add the cost in the job and when you leave the job you know the job was done right. |
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Jon Olson
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| 08 Apr 2010 05:04 PM |
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What Dani said |
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Bill Wolle
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| 08 Apr 2010 06:07 PM |
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from an old plumber AND solid surface guy
what Dani said |
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Peter Carpenter
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| 08 Apr 2010 08:44 PM |
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Hey guy's just wondering who does the water proofing of the shower floors and walls, you or do you hire qualified water proofers. |
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peterc@solidsurfaceofdistinction.com.au
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Kowboy
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| 09 Apr 2010 12:53 AM |
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Posted By Peter Carpenter on 08 Apr 2010 02:44 PM
Hey guy's just wondering who does the water proofing of the shower floors and walls, you or do you hire qualified water proofers. Peter: Solid surface walls and pans are waterproof. No additional work required. Joe |
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| ...One ought to choose likely impossibilities in preference to unconvincing possibilities.- Aristotle |
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John Christensen
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| 09 Apr 2010 01:41 AM |
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Posted By Kowboy on 08 Apr 2010 06:53 PM
Posted By Peter Carpenter on 08 Apr 2010 02:44 PM
Hey guy's just wondering who does the water proofing of the shower floors and walls, you or do you hire qualified water proofers.
Peter:
Solid surface walls and pans are waterproof. No additional work required.
Joe
About 13 years ago I installed 5 showers in a house. The job was 3-1/2 hr drive away. The plumbing inspector insisted that I install a vinyl membrane pan and mud base (similar to a tile sower) under my pans since there were not tested and listed be a testing lab., (IAPMO or similar). Of course the vinyl pans must be water tested and pass inspection before the mud base can be installed over the top. It added a considerable amount of time to the job to satisfy the inspector. I did a sloped sub base and vinyl liner filled with water one day. Spent the night in a motel and arranged for the inspector to make the job his first inspection the next morning. He showed up late, but passed the pans. I installed the mud bases and drove back home. Basically it added two full man days to the job, plus expenses. This was the only job I have done where it was an issue. Technically however, I believe the plumbing code requires that the pan have a liner or the pan must be certified by a testing lab. I have had conversations with Dwight Griffin, at Grifform, and it is quite a costly undertaking to get cetified to produce pans that can be claimed to meet testing lab requirements. As I said, the job I mentioned is the only time it has been an issue. Johnny C |
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John Cristina
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| 09 Apr 2010 02:40 AM |
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I agree with Dani 100%. We used to do a lot of showers and tub surrounds and everytime a contractor said "it will be level" the job took a lot longer and more money to fix so we just put the charge in to start and it saved alot of time, money and aggrevation. Do it yourself, its the only way you can insure that it will be done right and the way you want it. Especially if you are really the one behind the warranty. |
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Norm Walters
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| 09 Apr 2010 08:02 PM |
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I don't know why you can't test a solid surface pan the same way you do a pvc liner. Put a test plug in the drain, fill it with water to the top and let it sit for 24 hours.
As far as the floor being level, it's not much different than setting an acrylic bath tub, set it in thin set so that is it supported evenly. |
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John Christensen
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| 09 Apr 2010 09:19 PM |
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Tom,
I think the point is that in order to install a shower without a vinyl liner, the vessel, or pan in this case, needs to have a certified listing.
As I understand it. The testing process requires you to submit a finished standard unit for testing. The lab will then cycle the unit through multiple testing processes, including thermal cycles and load tests to assure that it will not fail under normal use. If it passes and you meet other requirements the lab will approve your manufacturing process for building units that can be labled as approved.
Surely you could do a water test on your pan but that only assures that it can hold water right then. It does not attest to the fitness of the pan for use as a pan with regard to whether it could withstand the stress of a 400 lb. person standing in the middle of it, or letting 140 deg. water run on it for 30 min. followed immediately by cold water.
The certification simply means that a similar pan manufactured by the approved manufacturer has been through these various tests and would be expected to preform as intended without failure.
Johnny C |
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Norm Walters
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| 10 Apr 2010 05:39 PM |
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John, the vinyl liners are water tested before the tile guys do their magic. I've torn out hundreds of showers and on 90% of them the tile guys have screwed a piece of durarock to the inside of the curb through the liner. Just in case one of these guys are reading you are suppose to wrap metal lathe over the curb nailing only on the outside of the curb, mortar bed holds the lathe to the inside of the curb until you mud the curb. Just venting  |
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Andy Graves
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| 15 Apr 2010 09:32 PM |
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What I take away from this is that I think I am going to level the floors myself and just charge a bit to do it. I can make the pan template at the same time.
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andy@thefabricatornetwork.com
Countertop Company - www.OliveMill.com |
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