Hi Tom,

You are so correct. I remembered Randy from back in the day, when I saw him recently posting here again.

Randy,

Yes, the illegals were here in 2004, and yes I added at them at the end. At least I included them in the data instead of ignoring them. And yes, most illegals wont report crime to avoid contact with police. I was just trying to show the data quoted by its own admission notes that half or more of the crimes from the crime categories they choose to report on, arent reported. On top of that when you include illegals which they dont even count, the data doubles again. Like most government numbers you need to include a very large fudge factor.


Kelsey,

Yes I hear you! Same deal down here and all over the Southwest.

As I understand what you are saying, Lenny, it is that crime is and always has been undercounted by the FBI. I don't know how true that is, but it seems to me it isn't "on point" for the question being debated here. And "doubling" the data for illegal aliens just isn't supported at all. We aren't talking about a census of criminals here. A robbery counts as a robbery if committed by a citizen or an illegal alien, or even if it is forever unsolved. I think you're sort of mixing apples and oranges on that front. Wags, I live in Birmingham Al. St Louis may be really bad in August, but God help them if it's any worse than home.

Hi Randy,

I have a few aunts in AL, and I dont think St Louis is going to be any hotter than your used to. BTW I hope everything is going well for you in St Louis.

One of the sources for the data on illegals was extrapolated from the last census (not the one being done currently). SInce being an illegal alien is a crime, it was in that respect a crime census, or is being used for that purpose by those drawing thier numbers from it. I get your point though about mixing apples and oranges.

This discussion started out a month ago, around March 18th! Can you believe it? If I remember correctly Kelsey or someone posted crime in a specific area getiing worse, and some others replied. Joe, who I actually like, admire etc, pointed out in general that crime is going down, and dismisses anyone who has experienced crime in his or her area as anecdotal evidence. and weve been debating it ever since.

Now in general I think overall crime is going down if you look at and can believe govt  numbers. But in areas its going up. Out in the stix here, its very low, and always has been. I see no change. But if a person happens to live/work in an area where crime has increased dramatically the national statistics dont mean much to them.

And I think the other point Kelsey and others were trying to make, is that maybe if the economic slump drags on and things get really tight, that crime may increase.

I read some interesting things that may fit into this discussion. Im sure you may have seen  the survey that said 80% of the people dont trust government numbers (See Aces blog) . Im one of those "bad apples" that fall into the 80% and I pointed out the lack of coverage for crime in the FBI statistics.

Another interesting piece I read as  to why some people think the overall crime level has decreased stated higher umemployment means more people are home so burglaries etc go down.

Anyways its been an interesting discussion, and Im glad you can be a part of it. And you too  Joe!

It has been fun. At least it kept us off the streets, right?

Where are your Alabama kinfolks?

Hi Randy,

I have one aunt in Huntsville, and another not too far away in Sylacauga, a one horse town.

Thelma Lou got mugged in Mayberry.  Maybe you guys are right.

See? SEE!?!

Interesting article,  interesting first city listed also

http://endoftheamericandream.com/ar...-your-mind

The AP talked with the mayor of New York City, about the attempted car bombing yesterday. Bloomberg had these parting remarks that got my attention, "

"Four shootings and more than 50 arrests on a mile-long stretch of Manhattan last month around Times Square prompted the mayor to call the mayhem "wilding."

I always felt pretty safe around Times Square... geez... maybe no more...

C'mon deniers, tell me how you can't believe the Wall Street Journal.

Joe