Posted By Randy Evans on 18 Apr 2010 10:21 AM
I went out to dinner and the Symphony in Birmingham Alabama last night and didn't see any crime at all, so I am happy to report that our crime rate here is zero, which is a dramatic fall from last year when somebody stole my car stereo on a day when our crime rate was 100%.

Hi Randy
I doubt your crime is zero but congrats on a crime free day. I went to the Museum of Fine Arts Saturday. When the Immigration van showed up outside the illegals scurried like freaking roaches.  Unfortunately they dont arrest them, they just show up like they are doing something.

Oh Im sorry, I forgot, the tens of millions of illegal aliens arent counted in your or Joes crime statisitics. They (the govt and FBI) know they are there, but they dont want to count them. Now they want to give them amnesty. That worked out so well in the mid eightys the last time that that happenned. Now we have tens of millions more to show for it.

BTW, what did you listen to at the symphony?  If I had to guess, I would say you saw the symphonic version of "Cats"

Lenny, you don't have to guess. Just make it up and declare it to be true, like the rest of your posts.

Welll Randy,

The "Cats" was a guess. The millions of illegals is true. The push for amnesty is true. The amnesty for illegals in the mid 80s is true. Which one wasnt true?  Please tell me.
If you dont think so then research and post instead of jaw boning.

Can't see where research has anything to do with it. You declare it, like Yul Brynner in "The Ten Commandments". "So let it be written, so let it be done!".

If I was going to research something, though, it would be why illegal aliens hang around the art museum in Houston, and run away from a van that contains agents who never arrest anybody. That's some weird stuff.

Randy,

Houston as many citys in the SW, are magnets for illegals. My duaghter was just telling me about a guy in school who is illegal who got stopped for driving without a license. They let him go! Too much trouble to book him.

Now you may not believe me. I dont care. Here is some research since you are too lazy or incompetent to do it. Maybe you can retort or just jawbone some more, as is your fashion.

Sit back.

1.) Amnesty 1986 See Here
2.) Illegal alien population...See Here
3.)  Govt dpesnt want to arrest illegals see Here and no one likes the fact of this BS  or amnesty see HERE

Hope you slept well, Lenny. You seemed aggravated when you wrote that.

I'm not ignorant or incompetent. I just didn't want to do research to justify YOUR statements. That ought to be your job.

1.) Ronald Reagan did grant amnesty in 1986. Check. I remember 1986 well, a year in which the national homicide rate was 52% higher than it is now. (This is the crime thread, after all.)
2.) There are a bunch of illegal aliens, apparently between 12 million and 20 million at the peak. They're not coming as fast, and some are going home, because getting work here got to be so hard. But there are a bunch. Check.
3) The link you give to prove that the Government doesn't want to arrest illegals has nothing to do with that topic. Just has a bunch of undocumented references to polls that says people don't like how enforcement is done. The second link says that amnesty is unpopular, and references G.W. Bush's effort to grant it in his second term. It doesn't indicate that there is much political support for it now, which seemed to be what you were claiming.

So you offer nothing to substantiate the claim that illegals are excluded from crime stats, and nothing to prove that "they" (whoever they are) want to give them amnesty.

What am I supposed to be researching again?

Flying to St. Louis today for a meeting, and the power went out just about the time I started packing my suitcase. But it came back on a little while ago, and I shall persevere.

W was not too popular amongst the conservative set regarding his stand on illegals.

Lenny, are they that much cheaper to an employer that the southwest business community seems to love them so?

Randy - Alabama to St. Louis then back again? Culture shock. When are ya coming back (going back?) home?

Coming home Thursday. I have been to St Louis enough to feel like I sort of know my way around on the train, etc. Can't complain about a town where you can find really good barbecue.

Posted By Tom M on 19 Apr 2010 10:09 AM
W was not too popular amongst the conservative set regarding his stand on illegals.

Lenny, are they that much cheaper to an employer that the southwest business community seems to love them so?

Randy - Alabama to St. Louis then back again? Culture shock. When are ya coming back (going back?) home?

Hi Tom,

I never hired an illegal alien for anything. For example see HERE Now these are HB-1 visas (work visas). The source is almost a  year old. Anyone who has this visa is a legal alien. But if you read closely it seems to say, HB-1 visa holders (foreign workers)  will depress wages.

Also the program has been abused by employers to bring in skilled workers when there was no shortage of domestic skilled labor  to save money.

I like the logic, that during a recession, when babyboomers are staying in thier jobs that the foreign workers are needed to "address the increasing concentration of income in this country".

Now based on that, Im guessing an ILLEGAL alien with a limited skill set, who didnt pay any taxes would work cheaply.

What do you think?

Randy go there in August and see if your opinion changes !

Yeah, that's about right.
I see the temporary drop in illegals due to the slow down of jobs, but I also see a huge uptick on the horizon when jobs do become more voluminous. Employers will need to keep as much money in house as he can.

Same with outsourcing. I shy away from that. I even market against it, but there is no doubt it is a cheaper way to do businesses, and it is a reality I have to fight against.

Wags, what happens in August? The BBQ stops?

Posted By Lenny E on 18 Apr 2010 09:35 PM
If you dont think so then research and post instead of jaw boning.

Lenny:

You know I love you man, but after I've repeatedly pleaded with you to substantiate the "fact" that crime rises in America during a recession and you can't/haven't yet, you've still got the nerve to ask this of Randy.

Joe

P.S.:

Play nice, too. We need new blood around here.

Joe,

Ill be as nice to Randy as he is to me.

Your crime data is  is incomplete. Not all jurisdictions report to the FBI and half the crime is not even reported. Youve failed to address that.

Now look at the 2004- 2008  numbers HERE

Take and add up the totals. Take 2008 for example...if you add the subtotals for various categories of crime  it comes out to something in the neighborhood of 10,315,072. And I will agree with you, the crimes they choose to report or recognize has gone down.

Now there have been other studies done of illegal aliens in the US. Its a crime Joe and the government and many others have studied how many are here.

See HERE.

Immigration reform proponets say its 7 million based on the  last census, others say its 20 million. The links above say it was about 12 million ( 11.9 million) Add those numbers of current criminals the govt knows are here to the totals in your hallowed FBI crime report  and the crime rate has more than doubled.

I love ya too Joe!

same thing in the school systems here... our small system  has about 70 kids that do not have the required paperwork, so therefore they don't count towards any funding to help pay for the 2 additional teachers needed for them. Without a SSN# or birth certificate.... they don't count, but yet the state mandates you hire special language tutors if they have trouble. Big burden on the school systems.

Lenny, doesn't the arithmetic that you propose at the end of post require an assumption thatnthere were zero illegals in 2004? You're adding all the illegals to the end of the time period, and none to the beginning. And I still don't know why we'd think that crimes committed by them don't get counted in the first place (except where their victims are other illegals who don't report it)

Joe, for the record, Randy has been a long time poster on fabnet. He is an outside the industry guy who is often the voice of the public regarding things, especially the radon/radiation/godzilla making material discussion we had back in the day.

You know, back when we were making sense with bacteria growth and shooting ourselves in the foot with radiation?

Well, Randy took the time to look at all the data that was thrown out willy-nilly and made some very valuable criticisms.

Oh, and he liked my tunes - 'nuff said.

Tom, St Louis is the only place in the world, where in summer the humidity is HIGHER than 100% !! LOL. It is truely a miserable place at times.