So that's it? A moment of silence, prior to "an event", would satisfy your desire to see religion restored to its rightful place in our society? I think that sort of makes my point. Much harder to be pinned down to saying what we're for, than to generically complain about how things are.

"If the religious will just keep their religion where it belongs, in their homes, churches and private schools and out of the lives and business of the rest of us, things would be just fine.
"

Or, perhaps on the facades of most of the official government buildings?
Or on the currency?

There were so many instances where our government acknowledged the importance of faith, that your argument to the contrary seems rather forced. Note: I am not talking about the here and now, but the formative years of our country. You keep trying to convince us that Jefferson wanted a wall between religion, faith, and a belief that our rights come from a higher power and Government (large G intended). That is simply not held up by his writings. He clearly does not want an established religion (nor did Madison, of course - see the first amendment of our constitution), but he certainly acknowledges the importance of faith in governmental activities and pursuits.

As luck would have it, here is an example of a District Judge ruling against the National Day of Prayer.

Ace has the hat tip. Interesting comments as well.

Andy, can all this be moved to a new thread?

I am sure that President Obama will appreciate your support as he appeals this ruling, and leads the observance of the National Day of Prayer next month.

I guess this business is pretty lucrative in AZ.  Capitolism at it's finest

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarep...s0416.html

http://www.amctv.com/originals/brea...itude-test

Wags ,  will try to steal the declaration of independence and the betsy ross flag
(for preservation purposes)
Joe,   Art thief

Tom,   Robert Johnson's missing songs

Lenny, will try to smuggle the space shuttle onto his property to be used as an indoor shooting range/ man shed

Andy, work boot thief.  falls through the ceiling at Sketchers

Kelsey,  caught putting the last of 30 kegs into his work van at the local micro brew plant.

Norm,  caught correcting the spelling on the bill boards advertising a Sarah Palin rally.

Johnny C.  guilty of being to nice of a guy.

Linda and Val bust Andy out of prison,  just to take care of an irate customer

Randy, I'll do you one better. Lindsey Graham, a Republican, comes out asking for an increase in the federal tax on gasoline. The Obama administration says "Now is not the time for a tax increase on gasoline" and in one fell swoop gets to the right of a Republican and stands up for the folks at the same time.

The Democrats would all be voted out of office if it weren't for the Republican opposition.

David, well sure, but I have to bury my black cat bones at the crossroads to get the dude to tell me where I out 'em. Old age is a b-tch.

I think you're probably right, Tom. A common saying in Alabama is "Thank God for Mississippi", since it so often keeps us from being 50th in thing like literacy, or 1st in things like syphillis. As a Democrat, I can also say "Thank God for the GOP" in much the same way.

Talk about a broken system.

Randy I grew up in a time when we DID have a bible in our public school.. but we didn't have drugs, porn, disrespect for authority, pregnacy or rapes. And I thank GOD daily for growing up when I did, rather than today. We also actually studied our founding fathers and knew their words. I think it was a better society then, rather than what it has become today. There was also no Welfare, food stamps, etc. People helped people, churches helped people and people helped themselves. And, there were fewer "poor" then, then now. The democrates have done a huge disservice to the poor, keeping them poor rather than giving them a helping hand and a way out of poverty. They stole the spirit of the poor. I also grew up in an area of great diversity, people from all over, who spoke many languages, but, in public they had pride in learning and speaking English.. Something that allowed them to be part of the "melting pot", rather than now, where we keep people separated by language. And I also grew up in a Democratic home, where my dad ran for state office and held many local political positions. The democratic party is NOT the party of the working people, it is the party of the elitist, that feel they know better how to spend MY money, but give little of their own.. Look at Biden 1.4% in donations, Oboober 5%, I still give more % wise then they do.. And im not republican, sorry Joe, hate to disappoint you. I'm an independent who votes for the person, not the party.

Geez guys,

How did this change from crime to religion? OK Im on it. Let me try to answer you all.

Tom, yes I agree, post another thread, since this topic deserves it own. BTW it was fascinating to see the comments on Ace..Thanks for those.

Randy, as for looking down on Mississippi, we look down on Alabama here in Texas. Ya All make us look good!

David, I already have 3 man-sheds, 1 for tools, gun work, etc., One for the chickens, and another for storage. However I’ve been looking at that 50 cal Barrett rifle. Jokingly I think I could shoot the ole shuttle out of space with that boy. After all, us guys can always use one more man shed.

This religion thing would be a good thread. We can argue a lot. We would have Tom, middle of the road intellectual, Me, old grouchy gunslinger/farmer/biz owner, Wags, conservative and astute business owner, and Joe, the poster boy of atheism, and David for the Northern exposure opinion .

Sounds like a firework mix to me! Lets Get R done!

BTW I suggest we do that one in the Swamp!

Lenny,  you know in the end that  the religion topic would come down to the haves and the have nots.    Like Sarah Palin,  I have been acused of letting my brain freeze however Joe would be left to thaw me out.  (a pun there if this was politics)    don't hate me cuz im beautiful

Wags, I'm glad that you remember your childhood fondly. Today, you would institute moments of silence before some kinds of public events. Anything else?

I just got back from KBIS in Chicago. First night, we went to the conceiege desk and asked directions to a restaurant. We were told, "it's only 4 blocks, but you may want to stay close to Michigan Ave as much as possible if you walk. It would be safer to take a cab back, there has been a problem with robberies. Then we get back to the hotel that night. The headlines on the news.. another murder in the city. Then someone from the mayors office commented... Our people are killing each other it's no wonder they are calling our city Chi-raq. I didn't pay much attention to any of this though... I'll just wait a couple of years when the FBI tells me to be concerned.

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 18 Apr 2010 07:54 AM
I just got back from KBIS in Chicago. First night, we went to the conceiege desk and asked directions to a restaurant. We were told, "it's only 4 blocks, but you may want to stay close to Michigan Ave as much as possible if you walk. It would be safer to take a cab back, there has been a problem with robberies. Then we get back to the hotel that night. The headlines on the news.. another murder in the city. Then someone from the mayors office commented... Our people are killing each other it's no wonder they are calling our city Chi-raq. I didn't pay much attention to any of this though... I'll just wait a couple of years when the FBI tells me to be concerned.

Kelsey:

Too bad you didn't click on my link on page two the last time you made the logical fallacy of Hasty Generalization. This is when you take too small a sample and apply it to the whole, which is exactly what you are doing here. But don't feel bad, you're in good company as Wags does this consistently too.

I've reviewed this thread and found true enough allegations of my thread-drifting, although the original thread drifter, Wags, seems to get a pass. I'm used to the double standard here; don't worry about it either.

I've also found criticism of my sources, but I've yet to find a single logical and factual substantiation of the premise that a failing economy causes a rise in crime. There's not even a correlation.

Should you take the time to look here, you will find the Chicago crime rate consistently dropping over a near decade with a slight exception in 2008. Or you could cite those impeccably reliable sources, desk clerks at hotels.

Joe

I went out to dinner and the Symphony in Birmingham Alabama last night and didn't see any crime at all, so I am happy to report that our crime rate here is zero, which is a dramatic fall from last year when somebody stole my car stereo on a day when our crime rate was 100%.

Number of Chicago Murders in 2008 Tops U.S. Soldier Deaths in Iraq, But Media’s Not Reporting It

Joe.. I don't click on any of your links.

Joe, when the concierge of a hotel tells me to watch out for my safety, you damn straight I am.. are you saying his warning is a fallacy?

When the mayors office is comparing the killings in his city to Iraq... I should just think he is a stupid  because he is making a hasty generalization? made me feel safe to be in Chi-rock

Oh yeah Joe... I forgot to mention, when I got onto I 65 into Indiana, the  Cracker Barrel I stopped at had a local newspaper in their rack... headlines were " crime soars"
I hate hasty generalizations . Dumbass editor...

And no Joe, i won't take the time to "look here", because I don't give a damn about what happened a decade ago.

But other than that Joe, thanks for looking!

Chicago homicides
1990: 851 (Population 2,783,726)
1991: 927
1992: 943
1993: 931
1994: 929
1995: 827
1996: 789
1997: 759
1998: 704
1999: 641
2000: 628 (Population 2,896,016)
2001: 666
2002: 647
2003: 598
2004: 448
2005: 449
2006: 467
2007: 442
2008: 510 (Population 2,853,114)
2009: 428

Kelsey:

 

I paid off my Toyota last month and my deck needs painting. We had a fire in the fireplace last night, it was lovely. I thought the place I bought tonight's pizza wasn't in the phone book, so I called information and they gave me a number with too many digits.

 

Joe

Joe, welcome back, your absence was missed by a few. That was language we can all understand.