I don't know how it is in your part of the country, but theft is starting to really ramp up around here.  The shop next door just had a flatbed trailer stolen, my building door was pryed on, screws have been taken out of my metal siding trying to gain entry.

Neighborhoods that have never had crime are getting hit all the time now, items missing from peoples out buildings. Heck, they are even stripping metal from farmers barns now, selling the metal....

Many of the utility poles are having their copper ground wire stripped.. it just goes on and on.

Kelsey, maybe you need to hire some of those people, and so on, and so on.............

On Valentine's day night someone pulled a tractor trailer up to the Paul Bunyan Pallet Plant in Preble,NY(15minutes south of Syracuse)and made off with 3 brand new fork trucks. The plant is right next to the exit/onramp to I-81,apparently the thieves were able to climb in through a window,open the overhead doors and drive the lifts onto the rig,and back onto the interstate, whole process taking less than 20minutes. This has been happening up and down the I-81 and Rte17/I-86 corridors.

When people lose everything, and have nothing to lose, they lose it. Even in a modern society like Chili it only took a day for riots to break out and looting to take hold. IF we have a major calmity in the US, how long before we act like that?

We only need look to Greece and France to see what MAY be in our future.

Wags, well said. If you look at old photos and film clips of the Great Depression everyone looks somber, beaten. I don't think the reaction is the same in this day and age. Back then people didn't have that much to begin with, nowadays people were, well spoiled I guess. I just don't think the reaction to losing everything is going to be taken lightly, especially since the wounds, in most cases, were not self inflicted.

It's not just people that don't have jobs. We had 3 routers 'disappear' from our shop a while back...coincidentally on the same nights that the cleaning crew would come in to clean the office. (they don't work here any more)

I've also seen 2 cars broken into and there has been at least 3 broken into in our parking lot during business hours. We also have to park all of our trucks inside overnight because people were jumping a barbed wire fence to siphon the gas out of them. During the summer we have to sweep up any loose rocks in the road because the neighborhood kids use them to break windows. Sweeping doesn't always work because we found out that they're carrying the rocks with them...one business about 3 blocks away had a window broken from a drilled out granite core hole that must have fallen on our street when the dumpsters were emptied...

So Brian what are you saying, the kids are worse, the employees are worse, and the economy is worse???

I love wrecking another perfectly good doom-and-gloom thread.

2005 was the safest year in thirty years.

We could have blamed Obama too.

Joe

Great Joe.. quote an article speaking about what happened 5 years ago, in the middle of the Boom.. geesh. I guess Detroit is just doing great huh Joe? No problem there, its happy days are here again.

Keep drinking the kool aid Joe, even Bernacke has said this week, were no where near out of the woods.. Look at Greece, if you love it there, your going to love it here even more.

"When people lose everything, and have nothing to lose, they lose it " Gerald Celente, Trends Forecast Institute

Wags, go easy on Joe.  He has a hard enough time getting clean helicopter pictures in front of us.... 

clean is good Joe....

Posted By Wags on 08 Apr 2010 07:24 PM
Great Joe.. quote an article speaking about what happened 5 years ago, in the middle of the Boom.. geesh. I guess Detroit is just doing great huh Joe? No problem there, its happy days are here again.

Keep drinking the kool aid Joe, even Bernacke has said this week, were no where near out of the woods.. Look at Greece, if you love it there, your going to love it here even more.

"When people lose everything, and have nothing to lose, they lose it " Gerald Celente, Trends Forecast Institute

Wags:

You're going off on a tangent again Wags. The subject of this thread is the crime rate, not the economy.

I have shown that crime is down substantially when viewed over the long term. If you have contradictory evidence, other than the prattling of a discredited pundit, please post same.

Joe

Joe,

Don’t make me laugh.

1.) First of all you quote evidence 5 years old, and have not any evidence in REAL TIME, Wags called you on that and you never addressed his point.

2.) You quote Wikipedia for God’s sake! It’s the cite source for Dummies. I don’t know about Michigan Colleges, but in Texas they don’t allow Wikipedia for quotes or cites. You or I or anyone can go in there and change Wikipedia to our liking.

3.) The esteemed Tom M called you many times before on using Wikipedia, but you failed to heed his advice.

Joe, you’re in school now. When will you learn? You’ve failed citing valid references. You’ve failed debating since as Tom M has often accused, you of “cherry picking your points” and you don’t want to debate them one by one. You never addressed Wags point of 5 year old data. And that was while the economy was good! In case you havent noticed its 2010, not 2005!

It’s no wonder they rag you on the stone forums for not being qualified to post!

Posted By Lenny E on 09 Apr 2010 09:05 PM
Joe,

Don’t make me laugh.

1.) First of all you quote evidence 5 years old, and have not any evidence in REAL TIME, Wags called you on that and you never addressed his point.

2.) You quote Wikipedia for God’s sake! It’s the cite source for Dummies. I don’t know about Michigan Colleges, but in Texas they don’t allow Wikipedia for quotes or cites. You or I or anyone can go in there and change Wikipedia to our liking.

3.) The esteemed Tom M called you many times before on using Wikipedia, but you failed to heed his advice.

Joe, you’re in school now. When will you learn? You’ve failed citing valid references. You’ve failed debating since as Tom M has often accused, you of “cherry picking your points” and you don’t want to debate them one by one. You never addressed Wags point of 5 year old data. And that was while the economy was good! In case you havent noticed its 2010, not 2005!

It’s no wonder they rag you on the stone forums for not being qualified to post!

Lenny:

Let's cut right to the chase. You don't like Wiki, but you offer no argument that the Wiki information is false. Let me tell you why you won't cite any contrary evidence. There isn't any.

This is an example, as well as "rag(ging) on the stone forums for not being qualified to post" of ad hominem circumstantial. In other words Lenny, you're not addressing my arguments, your attacking me and/or my sources.

I've busted you for this so many times now, as I have others on the stone sites, you should have learned. Address the argument, Lenny, not the arguer. If you can.

I love you man,

Joe

Posted By Kowboy on 09 Apr 2010 09:47 PM

Posted By Lenny E on 09 Apr 2010 09:05 PM
Joe,

Don’t make me laugh.

1.) First of all you quote evidence 5 years old, and have not any evidence in REAL TIME, Wags called you on that and you never addressed his point.

2.) You quote Wikipedia for God’s sake! It’s the cite source for Dummies. I don’t know about Michigan Colleges, but in Texas they don’t allow Wikipedia for quotes or cites. You or I or anyone can go in there and change Wikipedia to our liking.

3.) The esteemed Tom M called you many times before on using Wikipedia, but you failed to heed his advice.

Joe, you’re in school now. When will you learn? You’ve failed citing valid references. You’ve failed debating since as Tom M has often accused, you of “cherry picking your points” and you don’t want to debate them one by one. You never addressed Wags point of 5 year old data. And that was while the economy was good! In case you havent noticed its 2010, not 2005!

It’s no wonder they rag you on the stone forums for not being qualified to post!

Lenny:

Let's cut right to the chase. You don't like Wiki, but you offer no argument that the Wiki information is false. Let me tell you why you won't cite any contrary evidence. There isn't any.

This is an example, as well as "rag(ging) on the stone forums for not being qualified to post" of ad hominem circumstantial. In other words Lenny, you're not addressing my arguments, your attacking me and/or my sources.

I've busted you for this so many times now, as I have others on the stone sites, you should have learned. Address the argument, Lenny, not the arguer. If you can.

I love you man,

Joe

OK Argurer, How about when the founder of Wiki agrees with Lenny, says it is garbage, then other highly qualified people look at the site and say the same?

on a side note Joe .. I just heard the same percentage of people believe Elvis is still alive that supports Nancy Peolosi.  I just wondered if you got counted?

Wikipedia founder admits to serious quality problems

Yes it's garbage, but it's delivered so much faster!

By Andrew Orlowski in San Francisco • Get more from this author

Haven't been around in a while, and enjoyed reading this thread with its familiar cast of characters. Brought to mind a quote:

"Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

verifiable by many online sources, although not by Wikiquote

(Eisenhower also remarked, after an oversight at the beginning of a cabinet meeting, "Oh, goddammit, we forgot the silent prayer." My apologies to anyone offended, but I thought that was too good to pass up.)

Kelsey:

Can we agree that if we are going to have a discussion that we all agree that logic and reason are the minimum criteria for the participants? If so, I will continue, if not, I am no longer interested in participating.

The fact that Wiki has a spotty track record and a disavowing owner is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if the information in the article I cited is accurate. It is.

It took me minutes to come up with non-Wiki sources substantiating my position. 


This one is particularly interesting, as it cuts to the heart of the premise that as the ecomomy stumbles, crime will rise:

“As the economy started shedding jobs in 2008,” she wrote, “criminologists and pundits predicted that crime would shoot up, since poverty, as the ‘root causes’ theory holds, begets criminals. Instead, the opposite happened. Over 7 million lost jobs later, crime has plummeted to its lowest level since the early 1960s.”

More here.



When you can cite some statistical evidence to substantiate the position that a slowing economy leads to more crime, or ever has, please post it. Or you could point out the fact that some of my sources are occasionally mistaken. Or you could point out the fact that my house has a green roof.

Joe

Joe... the subject was Wiki... that was it. I merely pointed out your source is not well supported by the founder of the site.

I never really paid any attentiion to your post.  But after reading it... what planet are you on?

i live in a very small town, everyone knows everyone... well that use to be the case. In the past 2 years, our district court has seen cases swell from 30- 40 a week to about 125-150 a week. Our police force has grown from andy and barney to over 18 officers. An extra day had to be added to court. The names in the newspaper I have never heard of... where in the hell are these people coming from  Most cases are  domestic violence, drugs and burglary.  Vehicles are routinely broken into, shoplifting at walmart is rampant.   Our public housing is beyond capacity. While a 3 bedroom is meant for 5-6 people many has their brothers and sisters, mom and dads living with them... many with 10-15 in each apartment.

These people will become even more desperate... espesicially when their cigarette money runs out.

Every place is the same.. its BAD all over

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 10 Apr 2010 08:48 PM
Joe... the subject was Wiki... that was it. I merely pointed out your source is not well supported by the founder of the site.

I never really paid any attentiion to your post.  But after reading it... what planet are you on?

i live in a very small town, everyone knows everyone... well that use to be the case. In the past 2 years, our district court has seen cases swell from 30- 40 a week to about 125-150 a week. Our police force has grown from andy and barney to over 18 officers. An extra day had to be added to court. The names in the newspaper I have never heard of... where in the hell are these people coming from  Most cases are  domestic violence, drugs and burglary.  Vehicles are routinely broken into, shoplifting at walmart is rampant.   Our public housing is beyond capacity. While a 3 bedroom is meant for 5-6 people many has their brothers and sisters, mom and dads living with them... many with 10-15 in each apartment.

These people will become even more desperate... espesicially when their cigarette money runs out.

Every place is the same.. its BAD all over

Kesley:

You are right. I am wrong.

I was afraid that my control of the Federal Bureau of Investigation statistics would become public, so I made up all that stuff about the crime rate being lower.

I created all the other sources I cited in anticipation of being called on this. They are all made up too.

Sorry,

Joe

P.S.: Here's another crazy thing I just dreamed up. Read your post and see if you think it may apply. Or not.

Joe

The problem with government stats ( even IF we believe them) is by the time they are published they are outdated. Its like looking at sales from 5 years ago, and saying, hey things are good look at how much we did in 2005...it means nothing.

Here is an article published TODAY....by that flaming right wing organization known as the New York Times..  You can find stories like this in many cities in this country.. sadly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/n...olice.html

This thread was showing what is happening now... not in the past.  If you don't feel were in dangerous times, and that the future MAY be even more dangerous, that's your right.. and God knows I HOPE your 100% correct.  But in peoples' guts, we know something is not right. Something is happening thats not good for this country, and while we may not be able to pin point what it is, more and more are feeling that way.

On a totally different subject.....

I did some studing over the last few weeks, in regards to our founding fathers and how they felt about religion.  Perhaps we should start a thread about that.  What they said, how they acted may actually blow you away.  Taking history, (not the revised history they teach now) and doing a little research is a real awaking.  I went to school in the 50's and 60's, and while its been a while, I thought I remembered what/how I was taught was not what I have been reading. 

But that is for another discussion. 

Read the story in the link above.. its current and MAY be a prediction of what is happening or about to happen.

I would also suggest you challenge your professors.. I'll be happy to help you research subjects :)

This is a cut-and-paste from the NYTimes article:

But perceptions about crime and safety are often more potent than reality. Criminologists long have warned against using statistics selectively, to study trends in crime over short time periods — say, less than six months’ worth of data — because such analyses can lead to faulty portrayals.

For instance, the murder rate is up this year, because of increased numbers of killings in the first three months of the year, but the rate is in no way near its peak.

Through April 4, there were 118 homicides recorded, up from 97 in the same period a year earlier, for a 21.6 percent increase. But through March, the tally for the year was still lower than it was in the first three months of 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2008 — all low crime years.

“Crime is down, last year, down to record lows,” said Raymond W. Kelly, the city’s police commissioner. “We’ve seen an increase in murders. Obviously that’s a cause for concern. But if we stayed at this level of murders — we know it does go up seasonally — but if we stayed at this level of murders, 1.25 a day, we’d have a record low year. So it puts it in some sort of context as to where we are. The city has become much, much safer.”