I got a call from a customer I did a corian top for a year ago asking if I could sand out a small scratch mark in her top. During the night she heard a loud crashing noise and went downstairs to find a cabinet fell off the wall.   She called the builder first, he was the one who installed the cabinets. After talking with him he said when he got the call he was worried he didnt hit the studs when he hung the cabinet and was thankful when he arrived to see the back of the cabinet still on the wall atleast for his sake.


Notice to the left of the window only the cabinet back.







There was not a drop of glue anywhere on the cabinet. There were 6 staples across the bottom, top, and both sides.
At first the cabinet company explained it was impossable because there cabinets are rated to hold 200lbs. when loaded. She put everything that was in this cabinet in a box put it on a scale and it weighed 83lbs.  After coming out to inspect hmmmmmmmm wheres the glue??? Makes you wonder about the rest of the cabinets.

Amazing...care to let us know the brand? Also amazing that the floor and roof were not dadoed into the back.

The brand was Bertch. From the start this kitchen was trouble. The homeowner went to the kitchen dealer and chose a door sample she wanted. The dealer let her take the sample home with her. On the sample was a label with the door style, stain color, & glaze color. She ok's the job and orders the kitchen 10 weeks later the new cabinets come in and the builder starts the install, well the homeowner shows up at the site with her door sample and questions why the cabinets dont look like her sample. Then goes over to one of the cabinet boxes and reads the label well the door style is right, the stain color is right but the glaze color is wrong. She calls the kitchen dealer and he swears everthing is correct. When he come out to look at the job he had to face the fact that they were the wrong color. He then explains he needs to contact his boss and they will be in touch. This is the best part, they will replace the kitchen only after they sell these cabinets... Thats right, as if thats gonna happen. Now this is when the builder steps in and straightens things out and demands they fix there mistake and make it right. So then the kitchen dealer tries to blame the cabinet company and clames the label on the sample was mislabeled. Well after all this I dont know who actually took responsabilty but 3 months later the new cabinets show up and they were the correct color minus glue.

Maybe they had to save money because of the remake so they skimped on the glue. Do you have any idea what glue cost are these days?

Some of the excuses seem to come for a kindergartner.

Im surprised, Bertch has a good reputation. I would hope that it was just an employee that had a bad few minutes. Seems when a job goes bad, it just keeps on going.

Posted By Tom Wagner on 15 Mar 2010 10:07 PM
Im surprised, Bertch has a good reputation. I would hope that it was just an employee that had a bad few minutes. Seems when a job goes bad, it just keeps on going.

wow... it had staples.... and I bet none of their boxes have glue on them. It looks as if the back was finished, so most glue wouldn't have stuck to the prefinished surface anyway.

I see so many cabinets now, that are only hot glued together...  no fasteners of anykind.

I saw a set of cabinets last month... the customer paid over 15k at a box store... the shelves were 3/8" particle board and was already sagging from her dinner plates... after only 2 weeks.  What crap some companys put out.

That looks like a 36" wide wall cabinet, that's pretty big for a box cabinet, I try not to use that large of a cabinet, especially if it's not all plywood construction.

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 16 Mar 2010 09:40 PM

I see so many cabinets now, that are only hot glued together...  no fasteners of anykind. 

Kelsey:

That's because cabinets are apparently stronger without them, at least without staples:

"The use of staples did not improve joint strength."

"All of the selection models showed that the best combination of factors were dado joints, EVA (hotmelt) adhesive, no staples, and room temperature conditions."
 
http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejo...556_3.html


Had this manufacturer used only glue and no staples, the cabinets would have collapsed at the factory instead of on the customer's wall.


Joe

I used dados, pva glue and staples and never had a cabinet fall off the wall or even close to it. IF the back was recessed into the sides, then the glue on the side of the back panel would of adhered to the groove cut into the side panels. Also if the top and bottom were dadoed into the back, and glue used this would not of happened. The backs of my cabinets were recessed into the top, bottom and both sides. The staples were only there to hold it until the glue sets up.

Either way, Bertch is on the hook for this it would seem to me.

what Wags said...and then if they were gonna build that way..being as 3/4 they could have just screwed it into the back of the cabinet sides, top and bottom...I think if even glue was where the staples were it woulda fell..you would just saw a dried glue glob with plywood or particle board dust stuck to it..

I dont think any kinda glue is that strong to what people pack in these cabinets...if they save money on cabinets they usually are the same type of people who save every plate they ever bought since they were kids...two people sometimes have two hundred plates...

I'm always amazed at how many dishes people have. Seems like they have enough for an army when there is a family of four. Maybe they have lots of friends.

What happened to the countertop and floor below?

Posted By Joe Corlett on 18 Mar 2010 11:50 AM

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 16 Mar 2010 09:40 PM

I see so many cabinets now, that are only hot glued together...  no fasteners of anykind. 

Kelsey:


"The use of staples did not improve joint strength."

"Joe

Duh... without the staples the cabinet never would have stayed on.  A 1/4" staple will hold about 20psi....  Between the weight and the vibration of the doors closing... that would do it.

I build solid wood cabinets, all screws, nails, glue.. ect. In my own kitchen years ago.. I noticed the corner cabinet had sagged. I opened the door.. and noticed that it probably had about 100lbs of dishes in it! UGH.... dang women!!

I have often looked at wall cabs and wondered how the heck they stay together. You gotta admit for the way they are constructed it is truely amazing. There must be some Newton Law at work here.

Posted By Andy Graves on 19 Mar 2010 07:59 PM


What happened to the countertop and floor below?

Andy,
 The counter faired pretty well. The color was corian storm blue which is a lite blue with very small white specks about 1/16" in size. The marks left by the falling cabinet looked more like bruses that were around 3/16" in size but that was it. The homeowner said she didnt notice the marks at first but it was the cabinet guy who came out to inspect and he figured the marks were caused by the falling cabinet and recommended she call me to have them resanded at there expense.
 I hadnt installed many counters on Bertch cabinets and I was always told they were a good quality cabinet infact the place she bought them, Bertch is there custom line. Looking at the way they were constructed I would not say there custom.
 Overpriced is what they are in addition to what you see, there are 17 additional cabinets in 4 bathrooms and a laundry room all the same door style with a lite stain and no glaze, 24k NOT installed.