Jim Gillen
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| 04 Feb 2010 01:47 PM |
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I would like to know hear some thoughts on a wavy joint bit? What bit and bases works the best. Also, with Parallign clamps would it be better or worse to join this way? Are you defeating the purpose? |
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Kelsey Crisp
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| 04 Feb 2010 01:50 PM |
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Welcome Jim! I have always just done a mirror cut with a 1/2" straight bit, and used the Paraligns. I always have 100% perfect joints, the Paraligns make it easy! Never saw the need for a wavy bit, when a $18.00 bit works perfect |
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Jon Olson
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| 04 Feb 2010 03:51 PM |
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Same as Kelsey. |
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Andy Graves
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| 04 Feb 2010 05:09 PM |
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Don't bother with the wavy bit . A set of Parallign seam clamps are the best investment you will ever make.
Unlick KC, we don't do the mirror cut because we have a CNC, but if your straight edges are perfect you may be able to get away from the mirror cut anyway. We found the mirror cut does a very nice job as KC said, but it just takes more time to set up.
BTW, welcome to the FabNet.
Andy
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Jim Gillen
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| 04 Feb 2010 05:24 PM |
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thanks guys, that was the way I was thinking but wanted to through it out for discussion. |
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Kelsey Crisp
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| 04 Feb 2010 10:16 PM |
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Andy... not wanting to sound like Kow*** but "get away with it? If you mirror cut, all risk removed, 100% cut each time.
I have used 3 different brands of straight edges, and none was as perfect as the mirror cut. Setup time? 2-3 minutes? Put my blocks in, slap the staightedge to the blocks, clamp, router... done. Probably about the time it takes for your CNC to cycle back to home. 
Do you know what I mean by "my blocks"? Some still measure?? |
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Norm Walters
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| 04 Feb 2010 11:58 PM |
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You can do a mirror cut, but for a field seam you still have to go back and take a C-H off to get rid of the adhesive from the build up and to ensure that the build up is perfectly flush with the seam. |
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| www.normwaltersconstruction.com |
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Kelsey Crisp
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| 05 Feb 2010 12:14 AM |
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Posted By Norm Walters on 04 Feb 2010 05:58 PM
You can do a mirror cut, but for a field seam you still have to go back and take a C-H off to get rid of the adhesive from the build up and to ensure that the build up is perfectly flush with the seam. Norm (moderator) What? I do the mirror cut after the buildup is on.... I have never had to shave a C-H off? Are you talking the thickness as related to blonde or black? bet you miss the moderator tag eh??  |
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John Christensen
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| 05 Feb 2010 12:46 AM |
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I am with Kelsey on the mirror cuts working every time. Even for site seams.
Johnny C |
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Andy Graves
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| 05 Feb 2010 01:04 AM |
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The problem we always had with the mirror cut was when a guy would cut and move the router away from the straight edge and cut into the opposite side away from the straight edge.
I do agree the mirror cut works and works very well. |
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John Christensen
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| 05 Feb 2010 01:57 AM |
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Here is a challenge for you: Set two pieces of material up so that they are 3/8" apart. Secure them so that they cant move. Pull a router with a 1/2" bit through the gap freehand making sure not to stop once you start. Now pull the pieces together. Whoa!!  That is amazing. A perfectly cut seam. even if it isn't perfectly straight. There are limits to how far you can take this however. Any huge bobbles will cause a gap, but slight waves in the line will not be noticed. I often can pull a 6 to 8 ft. mirror cut seam and not use a straight edge at all. So, give it a try on some scrap. Shouldn't take you more than 5 to 10 min to try this. Post back here and let us know how it workded for you.  Johnny C |
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Kelsey Crisp
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| 05 Feb 2010 02:19 AM |
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Yeah... what Johnny said. The key word here is not to stop. If you do, you have to start over. I once had a cord hang, I had to stop, and restart. there is just enough deflection it will cause a gap. |
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Andy Graves
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| 05 Feb 2010 05:59 AM |
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That does work but if you are cutting a finished seam with edge buildup and it is not perfectly lined up on the front edge, you can not adjust it. Not the best approach if your top has a profile with a sharp line or a lot of detail.
If it is perfectly straight you can slide it and still get a perfect joint. |
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Kelsey Crisp
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| 05 Feb 2010 11:39 AM |
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Andy... Why would you make your mirror cut, on a field seam, and the front edge not be lined up?
I used to not run the profile across where the field seam is, finish that onsite, but after a few times, I just run the mirror cut, clamp with paraligns and finish the profile. |
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Andy Graves
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| 05 Feb 2010 08:37 PM |
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KC,
You must remember that you are a master craftsman. The guys in my shop are not so I have to consider they will probably not do it perfect. I try to design fabrication procedures to fit the medium skilled fabricator.
Plus, we have a straight edge the we made on the CNC that uses a router with a large square base. The edge of the router rides against a fence in the straight edge. When we clean up the seams we take off less than a 1/64". You can barely see anything being cut, but it does.
On a 26" - 30" seam they will pull together perfect. Super tight without the setup. We just go around to all the field joints and make the cut. We do check them but they always fit. |
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Wayne
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| 05 Feb 2010 10:17 PM |
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Amazing...thanks Johnny C we're going to try that one...what one can learn on this site is invaluable. |
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Norm Walters
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| 06 Feb 2010 02:26 AM |
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Kelsey, if you are mirror edge routing the field seam after the buildup is on, what happens if there is a problem and you have to do it again? Isn't the countertop already trimmed to fit at that point? The way Andy and I do it you will never say, oh chit. Unless of course the straight edge slips. |
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| www.normwaltersconstruction.com |
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Kelsey Crisp
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| 06 Feb 2010 01:52 PM |
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What do you mean something happen? I have had chips come out on Tempest, so you run it once again. The field seam cut is made before everything else is trimmed to size. So are you saying you run the deck mirror cut, then you just guess where the edge buildup needs to stop? Geez... you have a shop full of guys you can't trust to run a mirror cut correctly, but you trust them to hand fit the edge buildup? When will a mirror cut need to be slid one way or another, if it all has to line up with the front edge? Andy, everyone that has worked for me, I have taught them the setup, and the router run across the seam, after a little practice they would be very proficient. Maybe some will not feel comfortable doing it, but I'm sure you have someone. From the work you have done, you have a bunch of talented guy, or you are very good at photoshop |
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Norm Walters
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| 07 Feb 2010 02:35 PM |
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Kelsey, I run the build up a tad longer than flush, then it gets trim off with the 64th I am taking off the seam edge. |
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| www.normwaltersconstruction.com |
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Andy Graves
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| 08 Feb 2010 08:30 AM |
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We trim our seams at the very end after the tops are already cut to size. |
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