I have been under the impression that at least some digital templating systems produce digital files that are truly CAM ready and do NOT require CAD work prior to sending the files to the shop floor (This means either importing to 3rd party software prior to sending the complete file or sending to the production office to do so there).  I am now getting some conflicting information on this subject and would like to hear from someone who actually knows the facts. 

Hi Max,

We use digital templating, an LT55, the PDA version. We bring our files back to the office and work them in Autocad to produce a file that can be sent to the appropriate software for the CNC where we assign tools and cut speeds, etc.

If we used the newest versions with the full computer, it would be possible to do the job on site before returning to the office, but I don't see any advantage to doing this.

If you want to optimize for material use, you have to do some CAD work, whether it's SS or stone you are cutting.

The procedure usually takes about a half hour to 45 minutes from template file to ready to cut file.

We have some very expensive software that optimizes part layout, but I can do a better job manually for cutting SS than the software does. It's faster, but I'm better at saving material. Ultimately the saved material is worth more than my saved time.

Paul

Thanks for the response Paul.  Do I understand correctly that one must CAD the field data with a third party software, no matter if it is in the field or in the office? 

I know there are programs out there that will do what you are asking for the cabinet industry but haven't seen one for countertops. Because countertops are typically bigger than the material, it is really important for seam placement to manually nest the parts.

What specifically have you heard and from what company?

Hi Andy. I hope all is well with you.

I ask because I am trying to educate myself about the facts within the industry instead of believing the hype or assumptions I might make from available info. I have been led to believe that the industry standard is that the dxf files that are produced from most templating systems are not CAM ready, but still must be manipulated to get details input in order to then import to CAM software (I am told AlphaCAM is the most common). I also understand some to claim that this CAD step can be avoided but I get conflicting feedback of the reality of this claim. I do not want to make any incorrect assumptions or conclusions until I know the facts and I am having difficulty getting them. I wish those who make comments about anything in anyforum or out in the market would do the same before making claims without the facts. If we are all more knowledgeable about the facts, we can make better decisions.

I can't imagine that any of the software with digital templaters can do what I want done at this point in time. As Andy mentioned placement of seams and the way we cut seams is not likely to be accomplished well with any automated software. We have software that can take a cabinet design file and with four mouse clicks generate a series of cut files for melamine sheets, but it won't work well for cutting a SS top for a number of reasons.

We often cut tops with a cove backsplash and a scribe strip and a 1 1/2 " stacked edge. This requires making decisions on where to make the 1/8" recess at the back of the top and where to slice of the scribe strip from the digital file. The software can't do this effectively. We need to make quite a bit of 7/8" strips for the cove piece and the actual backsplash as well.  If we cut this it's true length from the sheets it would make for considerable waste. We use smaller unused areas of the sheets and many times we have less than 2 or 3 % waste in three sheets. No software that I'm aware of can do this properly.

The template software puts out a DXF file, but I'm not aware of any CNC machine that can use that file directly without it being converted to the appropriate code for that machine. That's what the CAM software does.

Paul

Thanks for the in depth comments Paul. 

My question does not involve the CAM step.  I seem to have a clear understanding about that and I understand the need for it from what you and others have told me.  What I am trying to clarify is if any system avoids the need for 3rd party software in the "field to CAD" step (prior to importing it to CAM).  It has to do with if it is possible to eliminate this bog in production.  I apologize for my confusing things by not being clear.

No matter what  digital template system you use, it will only provide you with an outline of the top to be cut. The new LT55 will give you a large screen and CAD capability in the field, but you will still have to break the top into pieces that fit the sheets and generate the pieces for edge buildup and backsplashes, etc. and place them appropriately to be cut efficiently. I don't think any system is capable of going from templater to CNC. Some CAM packages allow you to do the manipulation in the CAM package without using something like Autocad.

Paul

At this point you are going to want to use some kind of CAD software between the template and CAM step.

We have an LT-55 with the tablet. With some work in the field you could have a file for a stone top that could go straight to the router. I think it could be done a lot faster on a computer with some type of CAD program though.

I wouldn't even think about doing a SS job on the tablet with all of the extra buildup pieces that you need. It would take forever.

I think you will find using a CAD program will be much faster than trying to perform that operation in the field. That said, I think you can do it with the LT55 tablet and the Proliner.

If you use all the features in the LT-55 software you will be able to process both SS and stone tops from it. to accomodate for the build-up in ss you just use the add backsplash feature and enter the width of your build up, touch the edge that needed build up added and it will add that strip to your drawing, tap it again and it gives you your second piece of build up. while you are drawing your tops it is also calculating your square footage of material.

Laser products has done a good job of making the LT-55 a complete system, if you see somthing that it is missing you just let us know and we will work on adding it to the software.

There is a seam placement option in the software that allows you to place the seam, break apart the tops at the seam and lay them out on your slabs.

I will try to put together a couple of screen shots of the above features.

I am a distributor of the LT-55XL and a former employee of laser products, feel free to contact me direct with any questions you may have.

gordon 616-293-6170

Kind of blurry but this drawing shows edge build-up strips and seam placement.

Gordon,

If you add an inside and outside radius to the countertop, can you still do the offset for the buildup? I would like the buildup to be one continuous piece if possible.

Andy,

Yes you can do what you described, we have an option called offset scribe line, it will capture all of the radii and offset them with the stright edges, you just offset them again the width of your strip (example 1") and close the ends, you will end up with a 1" strip that will fit exactly under the front edge.

I will try to do a demo screen shot for you soon.

That would be interesting to see the process. Thanks Gordon

Gordon,

It was good talking to you this morning.  Our people are looking forward to working with you.  We have 8 photo-tops and they all work fine.  I thought it was time to try something new, so we tried the LT 55.  I am sure it will work fine, but the learning curve is going to be tough for our people.  I am certain they are incorrectly doing it.  Who else is using the LT 55.  I would like to know if you ever have any issues with it. 

I have also talked with Jim, from Laser Products.  I told him you would be assisting us.  He said that you were the best.

Thanks,

Mory

Mory,

I got mine from Gordon a while back.  The unit has to be DN level.  The tripod also needs to be level if you are moving the LT up and down.

Use the pins to eliminate low angle shooting and shoot a random wall before and after to confirm that the unit hasn't moved.

We just got our second LT-55 about a month ago. As far as I know we have not had any issues with them. I worked with Photo-Top at the last fabricator I was with. I liked it a lot but I prefer the LT-55 because it's easier to check the dimensions when you are still on site instead of having to process the pictures after you get back to the office.

Mory,
Similar to Chris, if you are shooting around an existing top and wish to nail the walls, be sure to level the tripod so you can raise the height of the laser above the splash.

The tool works great, and in your situation you will be able to take advantage of it well.

In my situation, I still have some hard and shiny fabbers that do not take digital templates, so we don't use the machine as much as we could.

Thanks for all of the replies.  We found out today that our system may not be calibrated correctly.  They are sending us a new box.  Our templaters will still have the learning curve, but I'll make sure they just do one at a time until they get it right. 

Mory