Anxious to try out some of my newly-learned skills aquired at the recent SFA workshop, I bought some pads and went to work on the toughest thing I could think of, top polishing a quartz seam.



I used a router on skis to remove most of the glue  before scraping with a razor blade.



This is after 200, 500, 1000, 2000, 3000 and buff pads. You can see the factory finish about six inches in from each end, with the "haze" in between. I used Dani's Estone Restorer on a felt pad with a random orbit sander to remove it. Polishing estone isn't all that tough, as with granite, the real art is blending into the factory finish and that's a bitch.



This is the seam in low-level light. It can't be felt, but you can see and feel some waviness from the 200. Trying to keep my indexing area as small as possible, I should have had some side-to-side to go with my back-and-forth. For a first attempt, I'll take it.



The pen points indicate the seam. This was a CNC or sawcut; if I'd had a Seam Phantom it would be even better. I applied some CA before the 1000 and didn't need to touch it again. That whiteish spot is a smudge, I wiped it off after I took the picture.

Joe

I still can't believe that you cannot see when you take a sander to a quartz countertop that you can blend it to the original finish.

Are you saying that a seam can be pulled in quartz and granite that cannot be seen?

What you have shown here is really nice and acceptable but is it truly better than just pulling a tight seam and leaving it alone?

I will say I don't have any experience with this at all, just real curious.

Posted By Andy on 12 Aug 2009 11:40 AM
I still can't believe that you cannot see when you take a sander to a quartz countertop that you can blend it to the original finish.

Are you saying that a seam can be pulled in quartz and granite that cannot be seen?

What you have shown here is really nice and acceptable but is it truly better than just pulling a tight seam and leaving it alone?

I will say I don't have any experience with this at all, just real curious.

Andy:

Granite and quartz seams easily fit the solid surface definition of inconspicuous these days. The pictured seam certainly fits this definition and could have been better with the use of the Seam Phantom which is a tool specifically designed for dressing stone edges.

I've pulled many a quartz seam, scraped off the glue and called 'er good. The customers loved it. However, if you want seams that can't be felt and are very inconspicuous, you have to top polish. Some guys I met at the SFA meeting don't believe in top polishing, they think a close scraped seam is good enough. I say if you can get paid for it, polish away.

Let's say you had an estone job that was 2SF over being a two sheet job and you had a color and particulate match drop of 2SF. You are either going to seam the two foot drop on to the new job or you're going to buy a third sheet to get the two feet you need. I know what I'd do. Seaming  has the potential to cut quartz waste and at 30% or so, it needs cutting really badly.

A polished seam would have to be more sanitary too.

Some stoner somewhere is probably working on a cove backsplash right now.

Look out,

Joe

That looks really fine, Joe.

Johnny C

Posted By Johnny C on 12 Aug 2009 03:03 PM

That looks really fine, Joe.

Johnny C

Thanks, Johnny. I'll keep practicing. That took over two hours and should be done in a half hour or 45 minutes tops.

Joe

Damn, that does look good. I see your point. This concept could actually be applied to seams in the shop before a customer even sees it. I would suspect that seams not exposed to cross light would look excellent.

Joe that looks nice, tight and flat....... but did you match the orginal factory finish of does your sample now have an all new finish ???

Try it on a large black island top next to a bank of windows

Posted By Karl Crooks on 12 Aug 2009 04:46 PM

Joe that looks nice, tight and flat....... but did you match the orginal factory finish of does your sample now have an all new finish ???

Try it on a large black island top next to a bank of windows

Interesting.  That would present a huge problem if you could not match the surrounding finish.

so would the bottom line be the same...by the extra or polish the yields that were cut and seamed...

Does breaking down the factory finish do anything to the dos' and donts lists of the care and maintenance sheets?

I guess if we had control of the final buffing that now goes on us huh? hhhmmm what to do???

I like seaming and polishing idea...but when people call and ask how much per foot..should we say more and why as well?...cool innovative thoughts on this thread

Posted By Karl Crooks on 12 Aug 2009 04:46 PM

Joe that looks nice, tight and flat....... but did you match the orginal factory finish of does your sample now have an all new finish ???

Try it on a large black island top next to a bank of windows

Karl:

Excellent question. The difference between mine and the factory finish are nearly imperceptible; it would never show up in a picture. If the piece were larger, I'm sure I could have feathered it in, but I ran out of top.

Joe

Posted By Gene McDonald on 12 Aug 2009 07:36 PM
so would the bottom line be the same...by the extra or polish the yields that were cut and seamed...

Does breaking down the factory finish do anything to the dos' and donts lists of the care and maintenance sheets?

I guess if we had control of the final buffing that now goes on us huh? hhhmmm what to do???

I like seaming and polishing idea...but when people call and ask how much per foot..should we say more and why as well?...cool innovative thoughts on this thread

Gene:

If I had to chose between spending an hour seaming an estone top together or spending $400.-$800.00 on another sheet of estone, the choice is fairly clear.

The manufacturers specifically don't allow a gloss finish to  be turned to matte without voiding warranty coverage. However, some now make matte finishes.  Dani Homrich has restored several estone tops for manufacturers. This is kind of a muddy area.

I would have no problem explaining to a solid surface customer why I had to turn her sink cut-out into the small top next to the stove, which is why she can see a seam there. Why should estone be any different?

Joe

thats what I like to hear...i thought it would take longer to polish...Of course it would take me longer than you or other quartz experienced workers...but I will practice, practice, practice to expeditie the profits. Once I feel confident about my polishiong, I will also have two prices ready for folks...One for the usual and one for level A inconspicous or suntin like that...and for me in some cases Shop seams will be done to save me more of sheet purchase and not having to inventory scrap storage


I just love the idea even if the idea came out to same bottom line...I mean the ideas are now endless to perhaps put borders, inlays..I mean quartz with the design aspects of SS is outstanding...

Let's say you have a 26" seam and use the Seam Phantom, Gorilla Grips and Integra Adhesive. The seam is perfectly flat and the glue stands proud of the joint. Could you then just scrap the adhesive down and polish the adhesive to achieve the same look?

Or, do you have to actually start sanding on the entire seam with stone polishing pads?

Posted By Kowboy on 12 Aug 2009 10:30 PM

Posted By Karl Crooks on 12 Aug 2009 04:46 PM

Joe that looks nice, tight and flat....... but did you match the orginal factory finish of does your sample now have an all new finish ???

Try it on a large black island top next to a bank of windows

Karl:

Excellent question. The difference between mine and the factory finish are nearly imperceptible; it would never show up in a picture. If the piece were larger, I'm sure I could have feathered it in, but I ran out of top.

Joe

Joe we have played with this as I know that you and Dani have, he has a good system. It's not an ez thing to do, I know some stone are doing it with alot of practice. 

 What we have done has been around removing scratches, dull spots or damage in some manner to the surface. Its not hard to make the surface look good again, we have refinished island tops and such. The hard part is matching the factory finish, like refinishing just 2 sqft in the center of a large island top and matching it to the rest of the tops finish finish. You are right the differance may not show up in a photos BUT the customer sure can see it .

Posted By Andy on 13 Aug 2009 11:06 AM
Let's say you have a 26" seam and use the Seam Phantom, Gorilla Grips and Integra Adhesive. The seam is perfectly flat and the glue stands proud of the joint. Could you then just scrap the adhesive down and polish the adhesive to achieve the same look?

Or, do you have to actually start sanding on the entire seam with stone polishing pads?

Andy:

If you just scrape the adhesive and finger polish, it will look great, but you will feel the seam.  If you want can't-feel-it seams, buried under gloss, you've got to polish.

Joe

Posted By Karl Crooks on 13 Aug 2009 11:11 AM

 What we have done has been around removing scratches, dull spots or damage in some manner to the surface. Its not hard to make the surface look good again, we have refinished island tops and such. The hard part is matching the factory finish, like refinishing just 2 sqft in the center of a large island top and matching it to the rest of the tops finish finish. You are right the differance may not show up in a photos BUT the customer sure can see it .

Karl,

I now have an E-Stone blending & dulling compound that makes matching the factory finish very easy. I did not have that available when you got your E-Stone kits. It is real cheep only 15.95 and it is used with the white Boss pad. It will blend the worked area to the factory finish in just a few minutes. A big time saver making E-Stone much easier to finish.

Posted By Gene McDonald on 12 Aug 2009 07:36 PM
Does breaking down the factory finish do anything to the dos' and donts lists of the care and maintenance sheets?

My understanding is that it voids the warranty if you top polish quartz.  With that said, what is the warranty really worth?  Don't they usually throw you  under the bus anyway?

Joe,
Were you able to match the factory polish?  We have gotten "good" results, but have never been able to match it where there is direct sunlight, so we opt not to push our luck.

Posted By Guy Robertson on 16 Aug 2009 08:20 PM

Posted By Gene McDonald on 12 Aug 2009 07:36 PM
Does breaking down the factory finish do anything to the dos' and donts lists of the care and maintenance sheets?

My understanding is that it voids the warranty if you top polish quartz.  With that said, what is the warranty really worth?  Don't they usually throw you  under the bus anyway?

Joe,
Were you able to match the factory polish?  We have gotten "good" results, but have never been able to match it where there is direct sunlight, so we opt not to push our luck.

Guy:

Dani Homrich has been paid by estone manufacturers to polish quartz. They can't have it both ways. If they can polish, so can we. The only warranty invalidation through refinishing I'm aware of is the honing of gloss Zodiaq.

I don't know how or why the myth of bad warranty coverage of estone persists, but it does. I had a Zodiaq claim several years ago. It was clearly customer abuse, but DuPont covered it anyway. Norm just had Cambria step up on a job with full coverage on bad material.

I ran out of countertop sample to try to get to factory, you have to index a very wide swath. My piece probably had a bit more shine and "alligator" than factory, but could have probably been blended in successfully.

Joe

Dani,

What is the name or # of your E-stone Blending and Dulling polish? We would like to try it and practice seam work and repair work. I can't find it on your web site.

Try this

http://dani-designs.com/danipriceli...sp#E-Stone