Joe
Remember that Mfg have to publish "standards" for the benefit of all fabricators. We have seen Jon do things with Solid Surface that most shops would not even think about doing. If paperstone pushed the use of their product in areas that take more care to be sucessful, they would have to take in account good fabricators and marginal fabricators. I dare say Gene can do things that most fabricators would not be sucessful at, and, with the mfg blessings.

Wags, thanx for compliments...I did the pour twice..the first pour was to hold down the floating products like coffee beans, etc..But i screwed up the first batch...It was being sold as an experiment prototype...but I first did strawberries and pineapples and they rotted quickly  they still looked cool but to help customers buy toppings for their ice cream


So i had to redo them..thats when the gummy worms and jelly beans came in..I useta spray with acrylic to hold them down to keep from floating but the polyester resin i use alligators and foggies up the acrylic spray..so its time cosuming on floating inlay materials...then on my second pour I do like normal with the dam and everything

Posted By Mike Gladstone on 08 Jul 2009 11:04 AM

Joe,
You stated that you have never worked with the product before, so if that is the case then why even comment on it?

Mike:

As you may or may not know, I took a logic class last winter semester. (I earned a B+!) During and after the class I was astounded by the amount of perfectly rational sounding arguments I heard that were, in fact, illogical. Unfortunately, your sentence quoted above fits the bill by committing a fallacy of relevance.

This is from page 120 of my textbook, A Concise Introduction To Logic, by Patrick J. Hurley, 2008: “The ad hominem circumstantial begins the same way as the ad hominem abusive, but instead of heaping verbal abuse on his opponent, the respondent attempts to discredit the opponent’s argument by alluding to certain circumstances that affect the opponent. By doing so, the respondent hopes to show the opponent is predisposed to argue the way he or she does and therefore should not be taken seriously.”

You have ignored the substance of my argument, the Paperstone website calling for horizontal interior applications, and are attempting to discredit it by calling attention to the fact that I’ve never fabricated Paperstone. The fact that I’ve never fabricated Paperstone is completely irrelevant as to whether or not my premises support a conclusion.

Let me help you out here. Gene’s argument that the same website advocates for exterior applications of Paperstone was an excellent counterpoint because it was relevant to my contention. Perhaps you could find a trade association of phenolic manufacturers who advocate for exterior uses as well. That would be relevant also, but saying my argument is bad because I haven’t fabricated Paperstone is the logical equivalent of saying “Joe, your house has a green roof, so you can’t possibly know what you’re talking about.”

Joe

P.S.:

I agree with every other sentence in your previous post.

All:

I just got off the phone with Joan Julius of Paperstone who informed me that Mark Knudtson has been out of town, which probably explains his lack of a prompt response.

Joan is delightful on the phone and provided a wealth of information. I’ll try to reconstruct our conversation from my note scribblings. Paperstone started out as skateboard ramp material. Coincidentally, Joan had just gotten an exterior-appropriateness question from a Paperstone dealer. Their “Rainscreen” siding product has an ultraviolet light coating which keeps it from fading. Apparently fading is the only exterior problem with using Paperstone outside, there is no structural change. The darker the color, the more stable the color. A furniture manufacturer decided that the potential customer fading complaints outweigh the benefits of using Paperstone at this time. The word “exterior” was removed from the website page where “interior horizontal” usage is found, and exterior uses were removed from warranty protection due to the fading issue.
Paperstone is looking for a manually-applied UV protectant as a potential solution.

Joan says not to expose Paperstone to bleach (not estone either, personal experience) and she has a small blond ring on a top of hers from a hydrogen peroxide exposure.

It sounds like using Paperstone outside is a fairly safe bet structurally, so I doubt Gene’s beautiful inlays will be failing anytime soon. However, customers can be fickle, even if you have them sign in blood that they were made aware of the fading issue.

For context, resinated granite will fade from UV exposure and 90% or so of fabricated granite is resinated. Engineered stone is not recommended for exterior storage, let alone useage. If fade-proofing is the top priority for your exterior customers, it looks like stainless, tile or unresinated stone is for them.

Joan is sending me some samples and I can’t wait to try them out.

Joe

Cool beans Joe...right off the bat throw the samples in water...the Uv fading problem if there is any usually catches up to the darkening Patina stage and balances out to the same color anyway...but where I used it was placed to get some sunlight...a little bit of the sunset will lay on the one counter for twenty minutes..but nothing intense

My problems with the counters are that the have 500 screaming kids droppping Ice cream all over the tops, brownies...all kinds of stuff...looked gross

I don't know how I missed this post, but that is incredible. How you gonna keep them from melting?

I still am not sure how you get these jobs, but in this economy, you should put on a sales seminar.

Again, great work.

Andy..why thanx for the compliments..i screwed up the first time by using strawberries...they turned white ..but the M&Ms, jelly beans are now preserved forever...I got pictures of water laying on it..pretty cool...

Yeah the people at paperstone finally seen it and go thru alot of ..they were appreciated how i won the Surface expo with my Kitchen counter and the toilet seat. yeah I know how to sell the wackiest stuff around and I cant believe people actually pay me for it.. I guess that type of stuff keeps me away from the home depot competition...the new BIG bOX competition on the block is IKEA

Wow! I'm with Jon, Vote 1 for Gene for fabricator of the year, or inlay king, how much more can you enlighten us to the applications of solid surface of inlays. Being very much a lolliholic (candyholic) this really appeals to me and kids everywhere.

I imagine it was tedious keeping the lollies in place, buy hey, it paid off and looks absolutely brilliant. Just keeps cementing in the point that inlays have endless applications for any business to have a product specific custom made counter top that will reflect their product to their clients. Keeping us guessing, what next?

Greenie,
Do you need to re oil the tops? Richlite recommends 50% diluted "Good Stuff" (butcher block sealant), but I'm not sure what Paperstone says.

I would imagine the bigger threat to be the surface sealant rather than the inlays.

yeah, I would use any type of Food safe oil...they sell that bamboo butcher block oil all over and you can give it to the customer to rejuvinate...but its not a cleaner...Ppaerstone sells this stuff in a bottle which is finisher and the other one is rejuvinater...the finish is good buts just re-labeled butcher block stuff..


the rejuvinator stuff is ahhh lets just say you can do without...if you give that to a customer its just as lame as giving them a peice of brand new sandpaper and telling them to sand out a scratch like the care sheets say....can you imagine after you finish your tops a customer doing that

That is incredible! What resin do you like best for doing inlays? Where is the best place to get it?