Norm Walters
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| 02 Jun 2009 10:46 PM |
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Has anyone ever seen anything like this? It's not a stain, it's the actual pigment in the material that has crytalized. I have been dealing with a warranty claim on this for three months now, if it isn't taken care of this week I'll let you all know what brand it is. I'm pissed, I talked the customer into putting the same product in three bathrooms and a kitchen.   |
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| 03 Jun 2009 12:46 AM |
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Norm:
Assuming the top was not installed in this condition, what does the customer say happened? Is this supposed to have just appeared one day?
It looks like heat damage to me. It also looks like Cambria, they've got the large particulates like that.
On second look, I take back the heat damage. Possibly someone cleaned the deck with a nasty cleaner, then laid a rubber drain mat on top of it while it was still wet, preventing evaporation and enhancing a chemical burn. That would fit the damage pattern nicely.
Norm, people try to falsely calim warranty coverage. I just did an inspection for a major solid surface manufacturer that had all the classic heat crack symptoms, yet the guy insisted that it just cracked on its own. Frame it like this to the customers: "Is is possible that someone (son or daughter) set something excessively hot here and aren't saying? Not that they did, but is it possible?" If it wasn't installed like that, someone's lying or being lied to.
Joe |
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Dani Homrich
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| 03 Jun 2009 12:51 AM |
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Norm,
It doesn't look like a defect to me, more like HEAT damage. The Quartz crystals look clear and that is an indicator that something very hot was placed in that area. I have done several repairs where the customer said the material was defective with the same type of damage and all were from heat damage. If the Quartz crystals are clear they have received too much heat causing them to separate from the polyester binder. When the crystals get to much heat the polyester shrinks causing the crystal to turn clear, because the color in the resin is no longer touching the crystal you only see the light reflecting off the sides of the crystal not the color of the resin. As for a warranty claim there is none for heat. A good closeup photo would help.
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| Changing the way you finish your tops. |
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Chris Yaughn
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| 03 Jun 2009 02:53 AM |
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Look in the cabinet under the sink and see if they have a "George Foreman" grill.
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Karl Crooks
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| 03 Jun 2009 05:15 AM |
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Yes we have seen that type of damage, it is heat or chemical damage, and does not look to be a warranty issue sorry.
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RESTORE ~ RENEW ~ REJOICE !
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Norm Walters
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| 03 Jun 2009 11:05 AM |
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It was already inspected by a manu rep, it is a warranty issue. The problem is the amount of time it is taking to resolve it. The first pic is a bathroom vanity top. |
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Brian Stone
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| 03 Jun 2009 12:39 PM |
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My first thought when I hear the description you gave is heat. Since the second one is right next to the sink like that it makes me think that they used a chemical that they shouldn't have and put their dish drainer over the top of it. |
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Wayne
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| 03 Jun 2009 01:40 PM |
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Sunlight somehow?
UV rays turn ES white. |
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Karl Crooks
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| 03 Jun 2009 02:13 PM |
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Posted By Norm Walters on 03 Jun 2009 06:05 AM
It was already inspected by a manu rep, it is a warranty issue. The problem is the amount of time it is taking to resolve it. The first pic is a bathroom vanity top. Norm if the manu rep already called these warranty issues and that was told to the customer then that's the path they want to go down. Will they try and repair them or replace these tops? Its to bad when the warranty process gets delayed, this just cost everyone more time and money, its very upsetting to the customer and they always seem to find more things they dont like about the product or the job. |
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RESTORE ~ RENEW ~ REJOICE !
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Brian Stone
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| 03 Jun 2009 03:51 PM |
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If it's the same damage on both tops them I would tend to think that it's damage from an improper cleaner. If they want to cover it under warranty then it's good for the homeowner. I'm surprised it's taking so long to process. Like Karl said, the longer they take, the more the homeowner will find wrong with something else or even the new tops.
Joe - the more I look at the picture of the kitchen top, the more I think that it's HanStone. |
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Andy Graves
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| 03 Jun 2009 11:33 PM |
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The only thing that leads me to believe it is the material is the fact that it is in two completely different areas. One is the kitchen and the other is the bathroom.
If it was a cleaner, why wouldn't it effect the entire piece of material and not be isolated to one spot.
If the damage gets worse over time it may be the material. |
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Norm Walters
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| 04 Jun 2009 12:22 AM |
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Here is the reason why I know it isn't heat damage. Shortly after the tops were installed the customer told me they damaged the countertop next to the range with a hot pot. It was at that point that they read the care and cleaning instructions and realized that the heat damage was on them. We replaced that section of the top for $600. I am fairly confident that they didn't do it again, and that they read the care and cleaning instructions verbatim after that.
They realized the replacement was on them that time and graciously paid for it. Now it is on the manufacturer, and three months is ridiculous. This was a large remodel for me, in a densely populated area of upper middle class homes, a huge resource for referrals. How much is this delay costing me, I am the person that sold this to them. Do you think I will be selling any more of this product?? |
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Wags
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| 04 Jun 2009 12:47 AM |
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Do you remember a few years ago, on a stone forum, that a class action suite was being discussed against a major quartz mfg, for exactly this reason. Their failure to honor warranty issues. Not sure what happened to the suite but they are well known for saying if we shipped it, it was good so its not a warranty issue.
Good Luck ! |
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Steve Mehan
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| 04 Jun 2009 01:23 AM |
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Norm,
Many have posted it being either heat or chemical damage. If the manufacture rules it that way also and determines it not a warranty issue, and can prove it by possably recreating the damage on another piece of material. Have you thought how you will then handle this? Also have you used this product many times in tha past? |
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Norm Walters
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| 04 Jun 2009 01:26 AM |
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Tom, as a manufacturer you can spend all the millions you want on marketing, but if you don't take care of blatant warranty issues in a timely manner your fabricator will stop selling your product. You know as well as I that you can switch a customer from one material to another because they rely on your expertise to steer them in the right direction, it just not good business sense to expedite warranty issues. |
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| 04 Jun 2009 03:19 AM |
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Posted By Norm Walters on 03 Jun 2009 08:26 PM
Tom, as a manufacturer you can spend all the millions you want on marketing, but if you don't take care of blatant warranty issues in a timely manner your fabricator will stop selling your product. You know as well as I that you can switch a customer from one material to another because they rely on your expertise to steer them in the right direction, it just not good business sense to expedite warranty issues. Norm: So we are to believe that your customers just woke up one morning and the damage just appeared? Perfectly good installed estone just suddenly developed heat-like symptoms on its own? Norm, if there are any "blatent" issues, they aren't with the manufacturer here. This is kind of like being pregnant. You either are or you're not. Either these issues appeared by themselves or the customers are fibbing. I'm the last guy to walk point for manufacturers, but I've got to this time. Just to humor me, look under their sink for some nasty chemical cleaners. Sneak it out and try to replicate the burns. Peek for a 20,000 watt blowdryer in the bathroom. Joe |
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Andy Graves
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| 04 Jun 2009 03:57 AM |
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Posted By Kowboy on 03 Jun 2009 10:19 PM
Posted By Norm Walters on 03 Jun 2009 08:26 PM
Tom, as a manufacturer you can spend all the millions you want on marketing, but if you don't take care of blatant warranty issues in a timely manner your fabricator will stop selling your product. You know as well as I that you can switch a customer from one material to another because they rely on your expertise to steer them in the right direction, it just not good business sense to expedite warranty issues.
Norm:
So we are to believe that your customers just woke up one morning and the damage just appeared? Perfectly good installed estone just suddenly developed heat-like symptoms on its own? Norm, if there are any "blatent" issues, they aren't with the manufacturer here.
This is kind of like being pregnant. You either are or you're not. Either these issues appeared by themselves or the customers are fibbing. I'm the last guy to walk point for manufacturers, but I've got to this time.
Just to humor me, look under their sink for some nasty chemical cleaners. Sneak it out and try to replicate the burns. Peek for a 20,000 watt blowdryer in the bathroom.
Joe
Joe, I must say have you are wrong on this. I installed some solid surface once and the material turned white. It was a chemical problem within the material and it had nothing to do with the owner. It does happen. |
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Norm Walters
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| 04 Jun 2009 11:34 AM |
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Joe, the manufacturer has already accepted this as defective material, all I am debating is the time it takes to remedy a valid warranty claim. |
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Brian Stone
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| 04 Jun 2009 01:11 PM |
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Three months is way too long. That's something that should be taken care of within a couple weeks of the manufacturer saying that they would replace it. |
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Andy Graves
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| 04 Jun 2009 04:10 PM |
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Post the name of the manufacturer and see what happens. You might see it expedited. |
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