okay I got a tough choice here. I know what I am wanting to do, but thought I would get some further input to see if my mind gets changed.

We have a laminate top we are fabricating (custom flat laminate bevel edge).

I will describe the layout best I can from standing in front of the sink.  I have a 42" corner sink unit going to the left 39" to Fridge, to the right 2" filler, D/W, 13" the cut out for Jen-air cooktop, 9" then oven cabinet. We are doing a Karran undermount sink.

Question is how would you suggest fabbing it and installing it.


Gotta hate it when you can not get them to up the budget to SS. Was a simple no frustrations job until they decided to go laminate.

Reuben

Maybe I read your post wrong, but would it be possible to install in one piece?

Reuben, is this about what you're saying for the cab layout?

And is thye question where to put a seam, or a field joint?

Reuben, If it were me I would probably seem it either to the left of the sink or in the middle of the dw opening. Alot of guys dont like seeming in a dw opening but in this case I would consider it. Problem with the left of the sink at the 45 is that your gonna have a heck of a time getting your miter bolts in. Dw will be ok just make sure you get 100% glue coverage on your field joint. On the other hand you are creating an extra joint on your edge if you go at the dishwasher. More of a judgement call I think.

Of course this is assuming Tom got the drawing correct. Looks good based on your description

Tom,
That is close enough(the cooktop cabinnet is actually 33".


The question is best place for feild seam if one chooses that method.

Travis I stopped using miter bolts once I got the paraligns clamps.

I am like Andy said thinking about installing it in one peice, however still talking myself out of it cause the fight with betweem wall cabinets and getting it in around an island area etc. without killing ourselves or the cabinets or fighting getting it just so to fit through the doors.

Reuben,
I f you were using a rigid glue, the non-field seam in the sink would be okay, for getting ti in in one piece. That would be the better option. If you have a backsplash with scribe, you can pull the edging off the top so it slides in along the O Cab. If there is a ref. panel, all bets are off and go with a field joint. Where? good question. I'm going with Travis' idea. I don't like seams above dishwashers myself, but better there than in the sink.

I would talk to the customer about two seams, if a field joint is necessary. One in the sink (with rigid glue - not contact) and a field joint in the cooktop.

Tom, it is a Karran sink. Mount the sink before you laminate. (bevel edge is wood or lam)

Ruben, One joint will work. Either to left of sink or in dishwater. Since you dont use miter bolts I would probably go to the left of the sink. Either way I wouldnt try this one in one peace. Just to tight.

It will be all contact cement. I have no way and am no fimilr with the rigid glue method.

The over the Dishwasher seam method, full waterproof glue coverage and then what if I place a full coverage plywood cleat on the under seam and polyurethane it to seal it along with the standard front edge PB. Is this probably the safest bet for long term sucess?

I am just hestitant about one peice for some reason. Maybe I should call up Barry Bonds trainer and he can give me some helpful breakfast drinks.

Sorry Travis cross post there.
It will be a laminate bevel edge that I normally apply after I do feild seams to aid in the overall look best I can.

Thanks for pointing that out, Travis. can't believe I missed it.

I'd still try to do it in one piece if I could. If that is not possible, I'd put a field joint in the cook top and a seam above the DW or to the left of the sink - whichever area the customer uses the least.

Rueben, So this is the way to do it.
Seem will work either way you want to do it(left of sink or in dw if you use cleat)

Cut your shapes, mount your sink, laminate the 2 peaces, do your build down.

Now prep your groove for bevel.

put your 2 peaces together on bench(if breaking at 45 deg corner left of sink) usng your paralign clampse to hole them. apply your bevel edge.Then romove the clamps and take the joint apart. Install- Set the tops and glue the joint. Cut in backsplash and your done. Cake walk dude. Even easier if you are doing digital templates.(No scribing)

Tom has a good idea but, you end up with two seems in the laminate when you only need one.The first thing to fail in laminate is the seem so I usually try to minimize the seems.

Steve Bace, while Lenny was in attendance at ITEC told us 2 golden rules about seams above dishwashers.
1st Rule... Never place a seam above a dishwasher
2nd Rule.... always refer to rule # 1

oh but then I noticed you guys were talking laminate... is that stuff still being sold?

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 19 Nov 2008 08:20 PM
Steve Bace, while Lenny was in attendance at ITEC told us 2 golden rules about seams above dishwashers.
1st Rule... Never place a seam above a dishwasher
2nd Rule.... always refer to rule # 1

oh but then I noticed you guys were talking laminate... is that stuff still being sold?

Kelsey:

I've got a ton of respect for Steve, but I wonder how many supported solid surface seams he's placed over dishwashers.

I've done it many times over many years. Never a failed seam or callback. There is no way a modern, well-insulated dishwasher is going to kick off enough heat to cause a solid surface top to fail. What's next, don't place solid surface below a window without shades? Please.

Where do these guys get this stuff? They don't get it from the guys responsible if it fails, that's for sure.

Joe

Travis, I was talking about postform tops with my Dad (the big boss man) earlier tonight. We both agreed that any postform top's life would be shortened by as much as a third with the miter joint.

I tend to take the same view of self edge or applied edge tops. The field joint is the weak spot. This is one of those "whatever you prefer" decisions, of course, but it is highly likely in Reuben's example that the field joint will end up in a work area.

I agree that it's better to have one, rather than two seams, but in this case, the field joint in back of the cooktop reduces the chance of both water damage and wear. Field joints across decks are so subject to the abrading back and forth it wears them down too quickly. First you get the melamine gone. Next you get the color sheet below the print showing. Last, the dreaded black line on the deck.

It's a slow, painful death.

................................................................

Then you sell the customer another countertop.
Life's good.

Joe,  If you were teaching that class you would also try to get the best senario out there. Sure Steve has done it, me too,,,,  but I'm sure his point was don't if you don't have too..

Tom,

I have to go with one seam becouse that is all the customer wants. So I am stuck trying to figure out the best location and that has been my debate with myself. I have thought hard about one peice but something just doesn't feel right and i have learned when I get that feeling to not try it cause something will go wrong.

So I think I have decided to go with over the dishwasher seam. I think this will be the area that gets stuff slid across it the least. The spot left to the sink hs the Fridge with left hinge if I remember correct and the sink has the small bowl on the left. So I envision the left of sink area catching stuff going in and out of fridge and also collecting the dishes before going into the Dishwasher. I know way to much thought for a laminate top, but I gotta make sure I give them the best they can get in situations like this.

Reuben, by now you have developed a gut.
Okay, I didn't mean it to come out that way, but you have instincts, and it is best to follow them.

Good luck with the job. This is one of "those" jobs.

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 20 Nov 2008 07:12 AM
Joe,  If you were teaching that class you would also try to get the best senario out there. Sure Steve has done it, me too,,,,  but I'm sure his point was don't if you don't have too..

Kelsey:

One of the best attributes of solid surface is its incredible yeild. Seams should be placed for convenience and speed of installation and material yeild; both put money into fabricator's pockets.

If I taught a technical class, that would be lesson one.

Joe

Q top,

Thanks for the thought. There is no sidesplash and all backsplash will be tile.