Has anyone looked into trying to obtain the MIA accredidation?  I have started the application process that they claim takes 6-9 months.  I am hoping that this will catch on soon.  What i hope this will accomplish is giving the consumer a way to identify a good quality fabricator that they can be confident in.  It will also make it a little tougher for the hack shops around to continue turning out low quality countertops.  Let me know if any of you guys have looked at this and what your thoughts about it are.

While this is a good idea, most consumers know nothing about certification. Even CKD (Certified Kitchen Designers) which has been around almost 40 years, is unknown by most of the buying public. Or, like ISSFA, anyone that joins can use the ISSFA logo, its meaningless. Perhaps the MIA has the deep pockets to promote "Certified Fabricator", otherwise it only means something to those within the industry.

If you are already a quality shop and don't need the additional instruction that comes with certification (if there is any) then unless the MIA is willing to promote the certification, it means nothing and not worth much.

What if I told you I could give you a certificate from the FabNet, sure you could put the info on your cards and a sticker on your window, but what does it mean?

I think word of mouth and a great list of references for your customers is more useful.

I'm sorry if I disagree with you guys, but the MIA has been going an Institution for over 60 years now. For the stone industry it is the main authority as far as tolerances, quality, standards, etc.

There are many benefits, but perhaps it truly stands out like ADAM stated, it gives you a step ahead of the competition. 'Some' small uncertified shops, have brought the quality standards to a low level, not caring about their employees health. To be certified you must follow safety, quality, and organizational procedures that although at a cost, they truly payoff at the end.

Many contractors nowadays are looking for their subs to be certified by an entity such as the MIA, some bigger builders are looking for fabricators to be ISO 9001 certified, even ISO 14000 (environmental management standards) So things are changing, if we want to be competitive, we must stay ahead of the game.

My suggestion, research, then based on your goals plan your road ahead, the MIA certification is a small investment if you compare it the results that it can give you, just make sure you call them, squeeze every piece of information out of them, and most importantly, follow up (enforce) the procedures that you might consider necessary for your shop.

I would bet, 99% of your customers would have no clue as to what MIA, or ISSFA or CKD means. It only means something to others in the industry. Your personal reputation will have much greater impact than a few letters that no one knows what they are. Do a good job and work referrals, will get you much further. Were one of the biggest stone shops in our state, and our reputation is why we get jobs, we don't need an outside source saying how good we are, our reputation preceeds us. Same as with each of us indivually, its our personal reputation that will preceed us, good or bad. Be honest, do a good job and the rest will take care of itself.

I have never had a contractor (and we deal with the largest) ask for outside certification. They ask about bonding, insurance, capabilities, past references but never a certification by a trade association. Perhaps Arizona is behind the times, could be I guess, just going by personal experiences.

All that said, I believe in trade associations and also in them setting standards. Has ISSFA ever kicked someone out because they were a bad fabricator? I don't know the answer, does anyone?

Thats my point Jon, while nice to have, the "certification" in many cases means nothing. I do know the NKBA has removed certification from some designers for various reasons, so perhaps there is some hope. MIA while im sure the intentions are good, are meaningless to the general public. They, nor do most trade associations, do not have enought money to make even 50% of the public aware of who and what they are, just a fact of life. Its more about making members feel good and making a few bucks while they are at it.

I dont mind sending organizations money like ISSFa, etc...I know they say we have to follow a conduct of standards...but they dont Police it...now If MIA does that that would be another story...do they require continuing education or 400 bux gets you spam, a website link and a window decal?

if it is like a contractors test that might even validate

I remeber my biz card last year had USGBC, BBB, FGBC, ISSFA I mean i think my card look like a racecar with all the logos...people couldnt even read my phone number to call a countertop

to each is own, I belong to ISSFA and other organizations because i support the cause of producing educational literature and support...what they do with money is none of my business anymore...if i dont like I dont support...period

Once you do become a member of an organization  it cracks me up how easy it is to become one

I met this guy the other day who told me he was a member of the USGBC, I aked hoim what test did he take...we laughed after awile I told him I was one longer..we are good friends now

same thing if someone tells you they are a member of the MIA or ISSFA...do you really want their autograph?? especially after you know its about a fee...do you really think these people should use the name for purposes that could damage the name...I wish they would give a test to become a member...at least a seam...especially for Stone...I can do a an awesome seam in any material Now...whattya think guys are these organization to free with their window stickers

Ok, from what you guys are saying, i am not sure that i was clear enough about what the accredidation is.  Being a member of MIA is merely a matter of writing a check.  The accredidation is a whole other deal.  There is testing, shop visits, jobsite visits, both front and back of the house inspections. 

The main reason that i am looking into doing this is that two of my slab suppliers here in town have approached me about this.  They are both telling me that i am one of two shops in town that they feel would possibly be able to qualify for this.  They both then told me that in the very near future, they would like to refer work to only MIA accredited fabricators(interest now piqued).  I know that i am getting refferals from them both as it stands but so are a couple of other guys.

Our business has been built on quality, fair price, and customer service that is the best in town.  Referrals are really the lifeblood of our business.  We are also known for doing jobs that others cannot and working with materials that others will not.  (Need to figure out how to post pics....)

Here is a link to the webpage that deals with the accredidation process.

http://www.marble-institute.com/acc.../index.cfm

I have contacted the person at the MIA that is in charge of this and I will post when i hear any information that cannot be gleaned from their webpage.

Trust me. if you purchase enought material from a supplier, and they don't have problems with you or your customers, they will referr you. Makes little difference if you have letters after your name, its zeros on your check that counts ! If it works for you, then go for it.

Adam...That is definetly a difference than others, they actually check up...that I would like...that would stand you out from the rest and then of if you dont do good work they point tips out to bring you up to par or they pull your certification...I like that...the ISSFA is not like that...If it is like that then I cannot varfiy that is or has happened to me...if MIA has builders connected that are doing a job in a certain district they can then pull up the MIA shops ...great plan and thanx for the clarification

I am loking over the papers you posted...intersting read

If you think you can get work from it then do it.  Also, it it provides additional training you think you will use then that is great.

I have never seen anyone require it.

Nice feedback, educational.

Just a quick question, Are any of you accredited by the MIA? I don't mean to be rude, I appreciate the input from you guys, and it truly helps so that we can push them to do more.

We are also members of the NKBA, and my personal opinion is that whatever knowledge, and better yet Business, that we can get by being accredited or members of an institution is welcomed. Maybe some of us have had better opportunities, or have taken advantage of the position it places us, when we become certified (accredited).

A quick story, When OSHA came to inspect our facility, we did have most procedures, PPE for each employee, thanks to the prior support from MIA. We had over 86 people in the fabrication facility alone, so it was no easy task. Then we have the seminars, such as the ones at the Stone Shows, by being a member, you save good a good amount of money, we gain some knowledge, give some knowledge, share the knowledge. So, maybe some of us just have had better results.

Hey but ultimately it is your money, you know how and where to invest it. Just wanted to let you guys know about our experience.

Vic

Thank you, Vic. That is certainly worth considering.

Good input.  If the certificate comes with training then it may very well be worth it.

My experience with some organization is they are in name only without training or pre-qualifications at all.

Thanks for letting us know more about the MIA program.

I hope ya'll don't take this wrong -- in my opinion belonging to a trade organization is about more than purchasing a marketing tool. Whether or not the MIA certification means anything to your customers, if it helps you improve your operations and processes it is a worthy endeavor.

No doubt you are continually looking for better methods and tighter controls to help make your businesses better. If the MIA certification requires you to go through the entire business and tighten up the ship it has to be a positive thing. Plus, they make the effort to check up and make sure you really do your part. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Incidentally, anyone who is seriously interested in continuous improvement of this sort ought to check out ISO certification (although ISO doesn't call it "certification'). It's another rigorous workout but it really helps fine-tune your organization.

Forget about the stickers on the window. This stuff is for your benefit.

Great input Ross,

We personally are working on becoming ISO 9001 Certified (Quality Management Standards).  It is a tough road though.  A lot of resistance to change, paperwork, etc.  It is our culture in our industry that we have made calls like, "just do it, I'll give you the paperwork later!"

I've personally have been a hands on fabricator, cutter, installer, machine operator, project management, and currently in production management.  Throughout the years I don't think in my wildest dreams would I have thought that I would be so much into paperwork just to make a countertop, but in the end you start seeing the results.  Accountability, control, QUALITY, efficiency, it all adds up to staying in the leading edge, or at least close to it 

My 2 cents on this though, be careful with the people who help you get certified, remember YOU are in control of your shop, don''t let the fancy Slide presentations, usually powerpoint presentations, cloud or blurry your goals.

My view also is that not everyone will get same results from an Association, unfortunately.  There are too many factors to account, so our results might be different from the shop next door, not to mention with another on the other coast.  Educate oneself with reviews from people that are or have been in them, see the good and the bad.  If it works for you good, if not at least you will get some new knowledge.  Love them or hate them, it's your call.


Next step ISO 14000

Good morning everyone.

I am new to the forum, but saw this post and thought I would weigh in. I recently took our company, MARBLEX (www.marblexinc.com) through the accreditation process. We are now the first and only Accredited Natural Stone Fabricator - Residential, in the Washington, DC market. 

It was a 9-month process. Not because of delays due to the MIA, but internal starts and stops. If you intend on doing this process, I would highly recommend having someone who is dedicated to completing this task. That person should have a good knowledge of the inner workings of the business and should be empowered to go get all supporting doucumentation without having to jump through hoops. In other words, they need to be able to bounce through accounting, production, operations, sales, etc. without hinderance. That person should also be organized, methodical, and a solid writer. Doing this could shorten the process dramatically. As I was navigating the process, I had multiple starts and stops due to other business-related diversions.

So why did we do it? Well, first and foremost, I saw it as a marketing opportunity. I come from the school of "be first, be fast, be fierce." In other words, it was a tremendous differentiator in a market with almost 200 competitors. Yes, 200. We specialize in higher-end custom projects, as well as the straight top jobs. But we do not get into the sandbox of the "39.99 + free sink" fabricators. To most of our customers, this is a very real point of differentiation. To them, it means that we are being held to a higher ethical standard, have solid business practices, are "trained" to a higher level, and are nationally recognized. Is anyone going to buy from MARBLEX strictly because we are MIA certified? Probably not. But, it becomes one more reason to buy from us.

A large part of maximizing the value proposition presented by MIA accreditation has to do with first, educating my sales/operations staff. Once they understand the importance of it, they can more easily convey that to the customers. Explaining it to customers is not very difficult. The MIA (IMO) has done a fantastic job of providing quality support documentation for the end customer. This of course, is augmented by our own literature and collateral materials.

The next facet regarding the benefits of accreditation has to do with what the process did to our internal processes. The OSHA inspection being a big part, forced us to revise some of our procedures, as well as to address some of the safety issues that we had not been aware of.

The accreditation process is not for everyone. First, having the proper documents and organization is necessary. This is the easy part. The OSHA inspection may be a deal-breaker for a lot of shops. There are many, many facilities in our market which would probably be shut down if OSHA paid them a visit. The single biggest challege was the examination. It is 200+ questions and it is not "easy." I am sure that there are many of you who are smarter than I (since I am the marketing guy) and could probably get through it with greater ease. But it took me 5 hours to get through it. The questions are wide ranging and varied and will push the limits of your knowledge.

Again, IMO, the accreditation process is a differentiator. I am sure everyone on this forum can relate stories from their market about half-a**ed contractors, fabricators, etc. who have installed cruddy projects for dissatisfied clients. The accreditation is one way to help assure the potential client that they are going to receive a quality job.

As far as the MIA goes, I have nothing but high praises for the organization. They have always been responsive in dealing with industry and business-specific issues. They respond to any member requests in a timely and accurate fashion. And they have dealt with this radon/radioactivity issue in a forthright and direct manner.

I also disagree about the lack of brand identity to the MIA. Customer do come in having done their research and know who they are. They have actually been around for over 100 years (including their predecessor organizations) and have built up visibility. Their website gets over 1,000,000 hits per month, so someone is looking at them. As with anything, you get out of it what you put into it.

If you have more questions about the accreditation process, please feel free to email me directly: blair@marblexinc.com.

Cheers,

Blair

Blair,
Good info and welcome to the posting side of fabnet.

You bring up a great point that speaks to Russ' question. In a web-dominated world, if the association can get enough face time on the net so customers will run into it, then link them to solid, easy to understand info, than yes, a trade association can make a huge difference. Next, once impressed by that info, as well as how it is presented, providing links to certified members will drive trasffic to you. Iyt takes care of pay to play issues as well as general membership info. A two-tiered sort of acknowledgment that does not look discriminatory in practice.

Blair,

Great review and insight.  What would you say is the cost to purchase and implement the certification?