Posted By Adam on 25 Jul 2008 10:06 PM

Here is a little twist for you guys on a neat little gadget that we have been using at our place.  We are a 3cm market in kansas city so it is rather difficult to use wood for screws. 

First, if the d/w is on site(we encourage this with our customers) we will attach it at the sides of the cabinet if the d/w model supports that.  If that is not possible we will use the clips with the two part epoxy. 

I have been on jobsites where the company that installed the granite will just put the 2 part epoxy and the clips in a ziploc bag and tape it to the tops.  I am not a fan of this because i feel that it is our companies responsiblity to make it as easy as possible for the customer.

So if there is no way to know exactly where to attach the clips we use a universal d/w mounting bracket.  Its a piece of 1/8" sheet metal that has tabs on both ends of it that can be folded over and has slots to put a screw into the sides of the cabinets.  The part of the of the bracket that bridges the gap in the cabinets where the d/w goes has a slotted track in it that has two mounting clips in it.  The mounting clips can be slid from side to side in order to accomodate almost any dishwasher.  It is actually pretty neat.

I get these brackets from a company in AZ and they are $4 ea if you buy 50 of them.  The way that I look at it is that I would much rather spend $4 than go to the expense of paying two guys the 30-45 minutes it takes to stop by an otherwise already completed job and put the clips on after the d/w has finally arrived.  I have a pdf file that i can email to anyone that is interested but i have no idea how to put it up here for everyone to see. 

Andy, maybe i can send it to you and you can work your magic?

nelson2326@hotmail.com

I'm in Kansas city too.. You're with Ameristone?

Anyways.. Dishwasher bars are great.. But we use a hammer drill & anchor if the dishwasher is in place or we can't get a dishwasher bar in.

You guys sure do love epoxy. lol

Listen this is the easiest part of stone.. Get yourself a small concrete bit. Put it in our hammerdrill and drill a small hole in the bottom of the stone. Put a drywall anchor in it and then a screw. Works great an doesnt fail.

I have used a hammer drill on quartz and granite. We drill a 3/8" hole and epoxy the brass inserts in for the sink clips. The inserts will kinda stay without the epoxy but it sure is better with it in.

Be sure to twist the screw in while the epoxy dries or the brass insert will fill up. After dry, just unscrew and add the clips.

This would work for the dishwasher as well, but maybe the other mentioned ideas would work better.

Chemical Concepts has a really nice set up that is adjustable - I am finishing the edit
for their video on these - it will be up on line later this week.

Here is a link to there "No Drill Sink Fastener" Video - in case you have a need for these too....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i53Xfyc-2-w

Enjoy!!!

kevin

E-Z Dishwasher Bracket...
http://www.ezdishwasherbracket.com/
They have a video there and also one on YouTube.

I saw this at a StonExpo and it looked like it would work very well.
Braxton-Bragg, Granite City Tool, GranQuartz, and Regent carry it, and probably some others I am missing.

I would have put it in my own home had I known about it at the time.  Maybe when my dishwasher finally tilts out onto the floor, I'll put the E-Z bracket in.

Anyone who instructs an installer to use a hammer drill on the bottom of a countertop deserves exactly what he eventually going to get.

Joe

We switched to Granite Grabbers a couple months ago and they seem to be working really well.

Posted By Kowboy on 30 Apr 2010 09:53 AM

Anyone who instructs an installer to use a hammer drill on the bottom of a countertop deserves exactly what he eventually going to get.

Joe

I always thought that was scary too Joe.

Posted By Norm Walters on 02 May 2010 06:58 AM

Posted By Kowboy on 30 Apr 2010 09:53 AM

Anyone who instructs an installer to use a hammer drill on the bottom of a countertop deserves exactly what he eventually going to get.

Joe

I always thought that was scary too Joe.

Norm:

First, accurate positioning is very difficult whenever drilling stone and is particularly important in this application.

Second, it is scary for guys like us with many years of hole-drilling experience.

Thirdly, the thought of betting that Jimmy-fifteen-dollars-an-hour is going to follow directions perfectly every time and reimburse me if he drills through the top of an irreparable icy glass estone is as funny as it is terrifying.

Joe

Posted By Brian Stone on 30 Apr 2010 11:38 AM
We switched to Granite Grabbers a couple months ago and they seem to be working really well.

Brian:

I talked the Granite Grabber inventor into sending me a sample and reviewed same on this site. I tried to link, but just like the PM feature, the Search function here doesn't work for me.

They held really well for about eighteen months. I followed the instructions perfectly and my top is estone which is smoother than granite which should provide an even better adhesive surface.

Unless you want every customer for which you've provided these to put reattaching the dishwasher on your honey-do list like my wife has, I'd quit using them immediately.

Joe

P.S.:

Is there a modern dishwasher made that doesn't have side attachments? If not, why are we solving a problem that doesn't exist anymore?

Posted By Kowboy on 02 May 2010 12:14 PM

Is there a modern dishwasher made that doesn't have side attachments? If not, why are we solving a problem that doesn't exist anymore?

Because we do it to ourselves. It's the same as going back to a job when someone bought Absolute Black Honed or Nocturne tops and they say that they can't get the fingerprint smudges off of them. Instead of saying the top is dirty and they should clean it better we put it on ourselves to go out and show the customer how to clean of their tops.

I just did a call for a dishwasher reinstall. After the granite guys put the tops in for the second time, she wasn't about to call them when the top of the dishwasher door was getting scraped by the mesh nuts epoxied to the bottom of the countertop. On my way to the house, I stopped by the appliance store and picked up a Frigidare dishwasher installation kit:




I pulled the dishwasher, removed the flanges and installed the kit, fixed a supply line leak, leveled the dishwasher, and screwed it in. The lady was happy except the manufacturer's installation instructions required the dishwasher flange to be flush with the cabinet fronts instead of behind as before. She could see the white of the flange now and didn't like it. I told her to get some permanent black magic marker and she liked that idea. With drive time and the plumbing leak this became a five hour job.

If I ran a shop, I'd have nothing to do with dishwashers except this.

Modern dishwashers can be mounted to the cabinets or lagged to the floor to prevent tipping. Too many granite guys are solving problems that don't belong to them.

Joe

wow.... 5 hrs...  of course she paid you to "solve her problem".

Guess taking 30 sec and screwing the feet up would have been too easy..

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 09 Jul 2010 05:53 AM
wow.... 5 hrs...  of course she paid you to "solve her problem".

Guess taking 30 sec and screwing the feet up would have been too easy..

Kelsey:

Had you taken the time to read and comprehend the post to which you are responding, you would have read "...leveled the dishwasher..." which involved screwing the feet up as you suggested. Leveling the dishwasher does not prevent tipping by itself. You aren't suggesting that binding the dishwasher by pushing it to the countertop to prevent tipping is a proper installation? That may fly in Kentucky, but you'd get laughed out of Michigan for a trick like that. Please provide ANY diswasher manufacturer that recommends that installation technique.

It is not my fault this lady lives an hour away, nor is it my fault she didn't have the proper kit and had to pay me to pick it up which was even further. It is not my fault she had a hillbilly supply line to the dishwasher with the shutoff in the crawlspace that was blocked by tons of household debris. The stainless flex line passed through the floor and had a failed gasket in the female end, which is not my fault either. 

Of course the proper fix was to unload the debris, properly terminate the hillbilly supply line in the crawlspace, install a shutoff under the sink and supply the dishwasher properly. She didn't want to spend the money. That makes my repairs a terrific value. That is my fault.

Joe  

Posted By Kowboy on 09 Jul 2010 05:08 PM

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 09 Jul 2010 05:53 AM
wow.... 5 hrs...  of course she paid you to "solve her problem".

Guess taking 30 sec and screwing the feet up would have been too easy..

Kelsey:

Had you taken the time to read and comprehend the post to which you are responding, you would have read "...leveled the dishwasher..." which involved screwing the feet up as you suggested. Leveling the dishwasher does not prevent tipping by itself. You aren't suggesting that binding the dishwasher by pushing it to the countertop to prevent tipping is a proper installation? That may fly in Kentucky, but you'd get laughed out of Michigan for a trick like that. Please provide ANY diswasher manufacturer that recommends that installation technique.

Joe -
My interpretation of "screwing the feet up" must be different from your interpretation. You said that the dishwasher door was hitting the nuts on the bottom of the counter top. The first thing I would do is screw the feet up INTO the dishwasher. This would effectively make the dishwasher shorter and possibly give you the clearance needed to clear the nut.

I don't see anything in Kelsey's post that implies that he would have simply wedged the dishwasher into the opening to hold it in place. You're jumping to conclusions and coming off as a jack-ass.

Brian

Joe,
If wedging it into place does not work you can always throw a brick on the inside.

Posted By Brian Stone on 14 Jul 2010 01:28 PM

Posted By Kowboy on 09 Jul 2010 05:08 PM

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 09 Jul 2010 05:53 AM
wow.... 5 hrs...  of course she paid you to "solve her problem".

Guess taking 30 sec and screwing the feet up would have been too easy..

Kelsey:

Had you taken the time to read and comprehend the post to which you are responding, you would have read "...leveled the dishwasher..." which involved screwing the feet up as you suggested. Leveling the dishwasher does not prevent tipping by itself. You aren't suggesting that binding the dishwasher by pushing it to the countertop to prevent tipping is a proper installation? That may fly in Kentucky, but you'd get laughed out of Michigan for a trick like that. Please provide ANY diswasher manufacturer that recommends that installation technique.

Joe -
My interpretation of "screwing the feet up" must be different from your interpretation. You said that the dishwasher door was hitting the nuts on the bottom of the counter top. The first thing I would do is screw the feet up INTO the dishwasher. This would effectively make the dishwasher shorter and possibly give you the clearance needed to clear the nut.

I don't see anything in Kelsey's post that implies that he would have simply wedged the dishwasher into the opening to hold it in place. You're jumping to conclusions and coming off as a jack-ass.

Brian

Brian, thank you. Joes post was so stupid... who reads the manufactures installation instructions on how to install a dishwasher. The magic marker statement was just a coverup of him not putting the dishwasher in the right place and him telling the homeowner, I had to do it that way... the big bad manufacturer told me too.
Joe... why not go over and troll the stone site for a while... I think they need your humor there more than we do.

Posted By Brian Stone on 14 Jul 2010 01:28 PM

Posted By Kowboy on 09 Jul 2010 05:08 PM

Posted By Kelsey Crisp on 09 Jul 2010 05:53 AM
wow.... 5 hrs...  of course she paid you to "solve her problem".

Guess taking 30 sec and screwing the feet up would have been too easy..

Kelsey:

Had you taken the time to read and comprehend the post to which you are responding, you would have read "...leveled the dishwasher..." which involved screwing the feet up as you suggested. Leveling the dishwasher does not prevent tipping by itself. You aren't suggesting that binding the dishwasher by pushing it to the countertop to prevent tipping is a proper installation? That may fly in Kentucky, but you'd get laughed out of Michigan for a trick like that. Please provide ANY diswasher manufacturer that recommends that installation technique.

Joe -
My interpretation of "screwing the feet up" must be different from your interpretation. You said that the dishwasher door was hitting the nuts on the bottom of the counter top. The first thing I would do is screw the feet up INTO the dishwasher. This would effectively make the dishwasher shorter and possibly give you the clearance needed to clear the nut.

I don't see anything in Kelsey's post that implies that he would have simply wedged the dishwasher into the opening to hold it in place. You're jumping to conclusions and coming off as a jack-ass.

Brian

Brian:

I am always interested in how my responses are perceived and I thank you for your honest assessment.

I suggest you look at the crux of what Kelsey was implying, which is that I was ripping my client off by spending five hours when a thirty-second fix was all that was required. No diswashers are properly leveled in thirty seconds. That is not a conclusion jump, that is fact.

Joe

Brian, thank you. Joes post was so stupid... who reads the manufactures installation instructions on how to install a dishwasher. The magic marker statement was just a coverup of him not putting the dishwasher in the right place and him telling the homeowner, I had to do it that way... the big bad manufacturer told me too.
Joe... why not go over and troll the stone site for a while... I think they need your humor there more than we do.

Kelsey:

Do you show such contempt for the manufacturer's fabrication and installation instructions for solid surface as you do for dishwashers?

Joe

As much as this pains me and given that I do not want to get between the three of you on this (can I even get between three?) -

The dishwasher being recessed behind the face of the cabinets will allow steam from the dishwasher to escape (when the door is opened) into the cavity hastening the demise of the cabinets. (not your cabinets Kelsey, just the cheaper stuff that is out there, like in my house)

Just sayin'