Hello All,

I am new to this forum but I have met some of you through my association with ISSFA and the seminars I did with Robert Oxley.

I am entrusted with business development for the US for a relatively new digital templating company here in the US called InnoDraw.  I have some questions for those willing to discuss them:

1. For those not digital templating yet, what are the main reasons for not doing so yet?
2. For those that are, what are your unresolved issues about how this technology is being handled?
3. Do any of you own a system but not use it? Why?
4. For those already using digital, what is one thing you would like to see happen in this arena to make it work better for you?

I look forward to a dialogue with this group. 

Max Isley

Max,

Can you give us some info on your system?   I am  looking at buying one soon and we are leaning to the LT55,  As for your questions:

1) Cost.  New and small shop that had no need for it until we added stone. (I sub out nearly all stone fabrication)

Can't really help much on the others.

Chris

Hi Tom,

Thanx for the reply.  Some of the issues you noted may be unique to that system, but I have still been impressed with what they have done an many ways.

3D- I have not seen a true need for it in the top industry, but we offer it as well for our cabinet measuring side of things.  See my reply to the next post for a little more info.....

Hi Chris,

I appreciate the request for more info.  I will try not to be too much the "salesman" and just give you the facts:

InnoDraw is a stand alone CAD software system using its own proprietary laser based gathering device. It works with a tablet PC.  It has been used for thousands of templates overseas.  There are currently 2 programs; Independent users  (IU)and our Measuring Specialists (MS).  Both buy the basic equipment for a small fee (comparatively speaking).  The IU pays a flat monthly fee.  The MS pays per SF of use.  The IU typically is templating only in house. The MS is usually an independent contractor templating/installing for a fabricator.  (Our goal is to set up a network of MSs across the US to cross refer business.) Although the monthly fee is unique, the cost per year is actually less (according to best available info)based on all costs associated with templating with other systems.  There are no training costs, update or maintenance fees, or consumables. 

I am told by users that this is "slam dunk the easiest software to use".  One does not have to use the laser at all.  The power of InnoDraw seems to be in the ease & flexibility of use and the low entry pricing. 

Please contact me if you need more specific info.  The website is www.innodraw.com.

Hello Max,

Welcome to the FabNet.

I went to your site and have a few questions.

1. Could I just purchase the system without all the monthly fees?
2. Can you fix the video on your site so I can take a look at it in action?
3. Does it work on the same basic principle as the LT55?
4. If you go out of business, do I lose the functionality of the equipment?
5. After the purchase, do I own the equipment or is it essentially being leased from you?

Thanks,

Andy

Hi Andy,

1. The monthly fee offsets the initial low price, lack of ongoing update and maintenance fees.  I can show you how it actually costs less than buyingboth in the short and long term. Hopefully when you hear how little is required to "get in" you will agree.
2. The video seems to be working fine for me, but be aware it takes about 20 sec. average to download it, more on some connections
3. The laser input and process is similar to the LT55.  I find I only need the laser on about 25% of projects, the rest I maesure with a tape or with the handheld laser (my preference is the handheld)
4. If we go out of business you only lose the conversion of the CAD files to DXF.  On this subject, a personal note; I retired from "active duty" in my own Kitchen & Bath business and contracting firm 4 years ago.  I was coaxed out by this family owned business to work with them to establish a presence in the US.  I am very impressed with the quality of the people associated with InnoDraw.  Going out of business could happen, but not likley based on my due diligence.
5. After acquiring the equipment you own it (you buy your own tablet PC) but if you do not want to continue with us and everything is in good current working order, I'll buy it back.

How do you determine what has been done and how much to charge.  Is the unit connected to the internet?  And if it does have to be connected to the internet, what if it isn't or can't be?

Thanks Again,

Andy

Max,

I've been meaning to call you too.  We're having a Semi - Open House in Rome, GA for existing VT customers March 26th.  We're going to have a mini trade show to assist our customers in gaining access to all the necessaties for stone installation.  We'd like you to be on hand to show your wares.  Interested?

PS - I told you this was a good site.

Russ

VT Industries

You are dead on right Travis.  The jobs shown were not straight but were "shot" as such because the tops were stone and a backsplash was being used.  Those of you in the solid surface products know the value of shooting a bowed wall when a coved backsplash is spec'd.  No problem for us and I suspect for most others as well.  You can shoot a rounded surface or bowed just about as easily as a straight one.  We recently shot a round hot tub deck.  Does this help?

Ahhhh Andy, now you get into the specifics!

All CAD files, whether template based, free sketched, or sketched with the laser electronic system are required to be sent through our server at least once to produce the DXF files and to be able to get to your cutting equipment, plotter or other output device.  We have multiple servers located strategically arounfd the globe for safety and redundancy sake.  All files are automatically archived if you need to recoevr something.  The project file is transmitted via internet and takes about 10 sec. from your initial send to have available on an FTP site for the shop to download and start cutting.  All files give you a "Bill of Materials" with automatically calculated SF (both "poured in" and overall SF), edge, cutouts, etc.  This is how the volume is acquired on both ends of the formula.  THe internet conncetion is only needed to send to the shop or create a DXF file, thus you can get to the internet any time.

Gotcha.  So then we would be billed for the sq footage of the top we were digitizing for the conversion service.  This is like a templating service where you pay as you go in a sense but you need to purchase the equipment to actually shot the layout.  Does this sound right?

Hello Russ, and a belated Happy New Year to you!  I hope your plans are going well for your launch.

I would be delighted to be there Mar 26.  Let me know the details when you can.

And yes, this is a great site.  I observed for a while and "took the plunge " this week to post.

DING!!DING!!DING!!DING!!DING!!DING!!

You got it Andy.  And I am actually pursuing folks to set up templating services where it is feasible.  (Now that is a whole new subject!!!)

If I am following this, this is a service that subs out templating?  I guess the obvious concerns I have are:

Controlling the appearance and demeanor of the templators.  Normally that is me and this person is largely the face of your company.

Who eats the top when a template is "off"?

Overall it is an interesting approach. Kinda in the sme veign as cabinet shops subbing out doors.

Chris & Tom,

Your concerns are taken seriously since I too have experienced some of the same anxiety. 

For many years I believed I had to have employees to install my kitchens and my own shop build my counters in order to maintain the control, look, and customer service of my company's image.  Candidly, I also lost a lot of $$ doing that due to non-productive time, waste, vacations, etc.; all the typical overhead costs that we traditionally don't apply to our job costs.  Man was I ever wrong!!  I converted my operation to a totally sub-contract model and we took off, both in volume and profit.  I sat with my installation sub, my counter top sub, my delivery sub, and everyone else and provided to them what I was looking for and what was needed on the customer end of things.  They told me what they needed as well.  We began working that way in 1991 when business was horrible, I had lots of debt, and I was pretty close to giving up.  In 2004 my wife & I had retirement choice.

The point is that the relationships were better as subs than as employees.  They knew they had to perform or be replaced.  They took responsibility like no employee ever did.  My customers did not know they were subs.  It worked wonderfully and I got to concentrate on what I did best..produce business.

I am not suggesting that everyone should use subs...but my guess is that if you have trouble with employees you will still have less with subs. 

As for the mistakes and who eats them...if a mistake is made now in your templating, who eats that?  If you have a subcontractor templating and you have an agreement with him/her you can pass some or all of that cost on.  Think about it from the templater perspective..."I can't afford to be wrong for my sake or yours because you will change quickly to get another.  As an employee and as long as it does not happen too much, what the heck, it ain't my $$."

But you do not have to go that way yourself, you can simply choose to be an MS for yourself and do it yourself.  I am saying just do not rule it out as a possible option  for the future.