I currently use another company to do all my stone fabrication and installation.  I have the option to install and have someone else fabricate or I can do both.

If you had to choose, what would you do?

I am thinking if I am going to do it, I may as well do it all.  Again, If I am crazy, please let me know.  I don't want to waste a bunch of money in this idea.

We are thinking of doing Quartz, but I won't do it until we are ready to do it all. In about a year to 18 months we should be ready to move to a new shop and we will set up to do our own then. Fab and install.

Paul

Andy, why not install and have someone else fabricate for now? Its a great way to get your feet nice and wet, then move forward with fabercation if you like.

All or nothing. Why have the headaches, backaches of installing when you can make money just selling it.

Reuben

Hi Andy,

I know of a large fabricator that took the following business model. They do all the work exept for fabrication. They Measure, CAD the job send it to the fabrication facility and have it fabricated and then they have the job delivered to their shop. They will take that job and do the final install (Installers will do that that work for the shop)

This will take some of the liability away in terms of damaged product during fabrication and fabrication mistakes. Of course you need to be sure that the job is measured correctly. They do not need to have all the tooling and labor necessary and make a pretty good chunk of money as well. They were strictly SS shop and then got into quartz and I want to say about 80% of the work is now quartz. They darn near don't even need a shop.

Andy,

If you have the manpower, and the margins are similiar to here in GA, I would start installing tomorrow. ESPECIALLY quartz.  The major risk to installing granite is the breakage(ask me how I know ).  Constantly tell your clients how bad the seams will be and then pleasantly surprise them.

The tooling for installs is nominal and your guys will pick up the skill set pretty quickly.  We are selling hard and shiny at the same rate as SS right now.   Lets see,

1hr paper work

1hr templating

4/5 hr on install

With my overhead if I do that once a week I make a living, twice a week I do OK. Three times and my wife drops back to full time mommy. Four times a week, No. No. No. Wait. That would almost be like a real job

 

 

 

your mileage may vary

 

Chris

Andy,

I kicked the same question around for about a year.  As you know, we decided to fabricate and install.  The investment I made was all Parks equipment.  The investment has paid off and I will give you a call to discuss it.  I originally wanted to do 3 stone jobs a week.  Well, as of right now we are doing 6 a week., 70% quartz the rest granite.  Our biggest product is Hanstone, but we have been selling some Viatera and Silestone.  Its a step I am glad we made.  As far as granite, we rod all of our sink cutouts and we have purchased long bar clamps for moving and installing.  We had a learning curve on granite, but damn even if you break a few the margins are great.  I am not willing to discuss margins on the open forum, but will discuss them on the phone. 

Reuben, Its been a while since I have talked to you.  We have hooked up with a trucking company that we can ship quartz and granite to you.  E-mail me and I will give you a call.  You would have to do the install.  We are presently shipping to Des Moines and South Dakota with no problem. 

Mory

We would like to start installing Quartz and Silestone but not fabricate them right now.

How do I find a fabricator for that won't break the bank and still make us competative in pricing? In case it helps we are located in Dothan, Alabama. (On the border of Georgia and Florida)

Thanks.

Robert,

Trial and error has been our plan for finding  a good arrangement. Also a referall from Matt Kraft has helped. 

 Look for stocking fabricators of the lines that you want to offer as fabricators who don;t stock will usually require you to buy a whole sheet or have  a 30 or so sq/ft min.

We are not too far from you guys, but probably too far for our connections to help.  Give me a call if we can offer any advice (albeit limited as we have only done a few stone jobs to date)  912.690.2498

Chris

Robert,

Forgot to mention that our pricing is EXACTLY the same as the fabricators we buy from. What I mean is, we provide the template/install component at X dollars and they provide the fabbing at Y dollars. In many cases, but for us being here, the client would have to buy the top directly from them for X+Y dollars. 

We make the difference with service.

Chris

I really don't want to fabricate it, but I do have a shop and employees.  If we continue down the road to more stone work, I may not have a choice.  Not a problem right now, but I like to plan for the future.

Nothing like growing your company when the industry is slow.  Makes it possible to get quality help.

Karl,

Probably good advice.  It would be easier to get into that first and get real good at it.

[QUOTE]Mory wrote

Andy,

I kicked the same question around for about a year.  As you know, we decided to fabricate and install.  The investment I made was all Parks equipment.  The investment has paid off and I will give you a call to discuss it.  I originally wanted to do 3 stone jobs a week. 

Mory

[/QUOTE]

My conversations with you is what spurred this on.  I figured with the number you are talking about, I think I could support that volumn with a couple more guys and a small investment in equipment, similiar to what you have done.

    Last year we did our first and last granite job.   I arrived broke 3 times!!!      The workmanship on the edging was piss poor.     and whoever  did the templating,     man oh man.    The third time it arrived broke the customer asked if we could piece it together.     Sure!    No warranty and don't mention my name in the same sentence as this top please.    My uterus almost fellout packin the thing up the stairway.         Before we did that job we were considering expanding into stone stuff.   As allways my   geographic location is a consideration.    It was clear why the top broke when we saw how it was packed.      I still didn't care for the material though.     In the end it was criminal how the customer was treated by the supplier.     I'll stick with more predictable materials thanks.    Has anyone read over at  stone advice .com ?    Not tryin to stir the pot here but when I read things like  "crumbled like  blue cheese"  ,  and blacklisted colors,     yikes!     I'm waitin this trend out.

A litttle about my business:   I am a state certified residential contractor in Florida. I chose to specialize in kitchen and bath remodeling because it is hot outside in Florida, and K&B remodeling is one of the easier trades.

I could sub out every facet of a remodel, I choose to do most of it myself, to maintain quality and also to keep from pulling my hair out.

I honestly don't have to make any countertops at all, it's not the most profitable part of a remodel for me.

I chose to do solid surface tops, and sub out granite and quartz,  because I actually like working with solid surface, it's kind of nice to get away from a homeowners house and make a mess, while not controlling your every move, within the confines of a fully furnished home.

I guess my whole point is to diversify, don't get trapped into doing one thing, because when that one thing ends, your bill collectors don't give you a chance to figure out your next move.

Good morning Gentlemen,

I realize that this is not the intro area, but this post caught my eye.  My name is Russ and I've been a member for awhile but just follow posts here. I have chimed in on Geeks, StoneAdvice and Woodweb at times.  My apologies if this is my first post without a formal intro.

I've been in surfacing for 20 years at the distributor and manufacturer level.  Mostly laminate and solid surface.  I left Wilsonart 1 1/2 years ago to join an Italian quartz company.  I'm now with VT Industries.  Some of you may know us as a postform top laminate company.

We are in the process of building a state-of-the-art stone fabrication plant at our laminate plant in Rome GA.  We should be operational at year's end.  Equipment from Breton of Italy begins arriving in the next 60 days.  We intend to focus on quartz and service an 8 state area as we do with laminate from this location.  Other locations may follow.  We deliver on our own equipment to every location of the 2 big home centers in the US & Canada.  (they're not our focus for quartz).  Our focus is guys like you that have responded to this post.  You template and install and we'll deliver fabricated quartz on our trucks.

I'd love to start a dialog with those of you that are interested in the model.  We're are intent on receiving CAD files that are generated from digital templates.  We're looking at PhotoTop but really just need the CAD file.  We also intend to build a training facility in Rome, GA for Lite CAD, electronic templating and real world install applications.

I'd be interested in your feedback.

Happy Fourth of July!!

Russ

Hi, Russ, and glad to have you on this side of the posts.
I can tell you right off the bat that I would be skeptical about promoting a product that may well likely end up in a home center.

I would put a great effort into promoting it, only to have it sold cheaper down the road. They had Silestone before me, so I can't whine about that, but why risk it?

What do you estimate a lead time from arrival of the CAD to delivery? I'm in Ct, so I don't think I would be in your range anyway, but if I were closer?

Tom

Russ,

Put me on the list for updates on your progress. While I find it unlikely that it would be cost effective for you guys to get finished goods to me in S. Georgia in a timely manner,  Maybe you can.

The service/quality/price all need to be top notch to move people away from the fabricators people currently work with. Usually only two of those variables can be moved in the right direction at the right time.

 

Interested,

Chris

sanitychaser at aol.com

Tom / Chris,

Thanks for the responses. 

Tom - we're not going with a private label quartz.  We will fabricate and promote the established brands.  We'll carry heavy inventory in the most popular items.  Much of our laminate business is in the home centers now.   We very much want to establish  revenue from outside the home centers with quartz.  Since we don't intend to install,  the  TMI (template, measure, installer) decides who the customer is.  I don't think service from Rome, GA to CT will be cost effective for anything less than truck load quantities. That will probably require a commercial project.   We have a laminate facility in Montreal, Belanger, we likely won't build a stone plant there for another 2 or 3 years.

Tom - I live in Suffolk County on Long Island - just a ferry ride from you.  At one time I managed Wilsonart's Boston warehouse.  I supplied Connecticut Plywood.   Fred Bennett was one of my reps.  Bill D. hired me in 1994.  Anyway - I moved back to NY to manage Wilsonart's Metro location.  I had a VT cutting station there.  I received tops from Indiana twice a week.  Minimum is 300'.  Lead-time was 7 to 10 days and sometimes less than that.  That would be our lead-time for stone.  We'll deliver product on the same trucks that deliver laminate.  We run 130 curtain-side 18 wheelers everyday.

Chris - we can move laminate effectively.  VT has been doing that for 50 years.  We cover 8 states from Rome.  If there is a Depot or Lowes near you, then we come right by your door already.  Quality and service - of course we're shooting to best in class.  We're spending money on the best technology available.  Price - maybe not the lowest, but competitive.

Thanks for the interest.

Russ,
I've known Fred since his days at Spear-Newman. If you hail back that far then you certainly must know Dave Isaacs. One of the best in the business, in my opinion. I had Bill D. over to an ISSFA dinner with Kurt Haffner a few years back. It was an outstanding evening. The guys did not shirk the questions and were very upfront about the processes.

Can you say which of the brands you will be fabricating?

Sure I know David.  I just saw him at a trade show.  I interviewed with him before Bill D.  When they closed David's NY warehouse - he took over Al Petschaur's sales territory in NY.  ( I started in adhesive claims after selling Nevamar for 8 years on LI)  I took over the sales territory in NY when David went to Rugby.  I moved to Mass in 2000 when Bill Underhill retired and then back to NY when Wilsonart purchased the Meyer branches.  (I lived right down the road from Jon at Sterling Surfaces. ) A beautiful area that we didn't want to leave. 

Brands - not yet finalized but I can tell you that it won't be Cambria.  Give me a couple of weeks and I can answer that