Friday, May 18, 2012

ForumFabrication, Installation, and RepairsSolid Surface1 " cast tops locally
Dovae Solid Surface

  Sponsors
Bruce Adhesives - March 09
Moraware - Sorftware for Fabricators
Wesley Tools - Router Bits, Blades and Tools
Gemstone Sink and Bowl Company
  
  The FabNet® Forum
1 " cast tops locally
Last Post 27 Apr 2007 02:04 PM by Wags. 22 Replies.
AddThis - Bookmarking and Sharing Button Printer Friendly
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
Sort:
PrevPrev NextNext
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 1 of 212 > >>
Author Messages
David Gerard
Veteran Member
Veteran Member

David Gerard

Private Messenger: Send Private Message
Posts: 2873


--
13 Apr 2007 03:59 PM
    Hey Gang,  I anyone familiar with 1" thick cast tops that boast 14" unsupported overhangs,no seam-blocks,mitered corners and no corner blocks anywhere ,one thick slab period.  the cost to us fabbers.....135.00 per ft. 25"x 48"  lot of field seams because of weight.   More to this story later   Thanks     David G.
    insomnia crossed with dyslexia and atheist beliefs may lead one to lay awake all night wondering if there really is a "Dog"
    al
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    al

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 2658


    --
    14 Apr 2007 01:11 AM

    Cast locally.  Sounds like anothe Jetta train wreck waiting to happen.

    could be wrong......

    "if it is so safe, why aren't they supporting the testing?"
    Fred Atwood
    Basic Member
    Basic Member

    Fred Atwood

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 197


    --
    14 Apr 2007 03:19 AM

    $ 135 per foot?   OUCH!    Even linear that is heavy....10' top $1350?  Someone must be paying the fabricators a lot more than I get to have anything that even resembles savings with this product.

    Fred - RWI Corp.
    ............................................................................................................................. To Have Tomorrow What Other DON'T, You Must Do Today What Others WON'T
    Andy Graves


    Andy Graves

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 8784


    --
    14 Apr 2007 06:50 AM
    This doesn't sound like a good deal.  Keep us posted
    FabNet Administrator
    andy@thefabricatornetwork.com
    Countertop Company - www.OliveMill.com
    David Gerard
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    David Gerard

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 2873


    --
    15 Apr 2007 05:16 PM
    I'm back from working a home show  Sat.  and was able to look into the "new guy"  with I" casted tops.  Lots of raised eyebrows among other kitchen center folks. They are aware of  this product  locally but time will tell how it performs.  Not to be slanderous but the fabricator in question continues to be re-inventing himself again from his last endevor of tile setting, this time  with solid surface.  I couldn't get past the "non compete" contract he presented me with nor could my attorney.  After the the second time I declined to sign  this person informed me that this product would be taking over the competition in my area .  We will see I guess..    I was mostly wondering  if this type of material is common anywhere else . Was scares me is the warranty. Whgo will fix it?  I think he is his own WSA.  The stuff is 185.00 a lft. installed plus sink + install of 500.00.   All the strength  at the glue joint is reliant on the 1" of surface at the glue face.   Give him more rope if he needs it.  ( his previous boss's advice).       Thanks David G.
    insomnia crossed with dyslexia and atheist beliefs may lead one to lay awake all night wondering if there really is a "Dog"
    David Gerard
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    David Gerard

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 2873


    --
    15 Apr 2007 05:20 PM
        P.S. Hey Andy ,  How do I get my smilin fish I I I I   mean face up there ?  Good to put a face with the name.  Right Gordon?      Cheers, David G.
    insomnia crossed with dyslexia and atheist beliefs may lead one to lay awake all night wondering if there really is a "Dog"
    Andy Graves


    Andy Graves

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 8784


    --
    15 Apr 2007 06:55 PM

    [QUOTE]David G. wrote
        P.S. Hey Andy ,  How do I get my smilin fish I I I I   mean face up there ?  Good to put a face with the name.  Right Gordon?      Cheers, David G.[/QUOTE]

    You need to click on "My Setting" and add an "Avatar" to your name.

    FabNet Administrator
    andy@thefabricatornetwork.com
    Countertop Company - www.OliveMill.com
    al
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    al

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 2658


    --
    15 Apr 2007 08:55 PM

    If this guy can sell @ $185 per foot plus install I need to move my shop next week.

    Do you have a link to the product so we can check it out?

     

    "if it is so safe, why aren't they supporting the testing?"
    David Gerard
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    David Gerard

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 2873


    --
    16 Apr 2007 06:57 AM
       Before you box up your dust masks are you prepared to pay 4.50  + tx.  for a gal of milk. Don't even ask about beer.  In the intrest of onesty  though ,we pay dearly for shipping here. That does affect some cost.  Trucks leave here empty and Subarus come to die. I really do hope to learn more about this type of product and  I'm trying not to be slanderous even after my last conversation defending my position . The direct threat of competition was entertaining  though.    David
    insomnia crossed with dyslexia and atheist beliefs may lead one to lay awake all night wondering if there really is a "Dog"
    David Gerard
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    David Gerard

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 2873


    --
    24 Apr 2007 06:02 AM
    All,    Just learned  the correct term for this counter material.  Cast Polymer.  Looked at some great sites.   Whats the diff if any? Why don't we see more of it around if it's so great?  Who certifies the stuff?   David G.
    insomnia crossed with dyslexia and atheist beliefs may lead one to lay awake all night wondering if there really is a "Dog"
    Karl Crooks
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    Karl Crooks

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 992


    --
    24 Apr 2007 03:25 PM
    Cast Polymer is a fancy word for Cultured Marble (man made marble), 25 + years ago the Cultured Marble guys started making thier own home brews of Solid Surface. Some still do today, this must be what you are looking at.
    RESTORE ~ RENEW ~ REJOICE !
    Matt Kraft
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member

    Matt Kraft

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 456


    --
    26 Apr 2007 11:56 AM
    [QUOTE]KarlC@BTP wrote
    Cast Polymer is a fancy word for Cultured Marble (man made marble), 25 + years ago the Cultured Marble guys started making thier own home brews of Solid Surface. Some still do today, this must be what you are looking at.[/QUOTE]

    Not completely true.  Cultured Marble is a cast polymer product, so is solid surface, but they are not the same.  Resins are different, processing equipment is different, fillers are different, product curing is done differently, etc.

    If he is doing things correctly, there is nothing wrong with it.  It is chemically identical to everything out there that is not 100% acrylic (Avonite, Dovae, EOS, etc.)

    I cannot make any judgement on how he is processing, but the fact that he is making it himself does not preclude it being a quality product.
    "It ain't no sin to be glad you're alive...."
    Karl Crooks
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    Karl Crooks

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 992


    --
    26 Apr 2007 02:47 PM
    Matt, sorry I went with the simple explanation, I used to manufactred 1000's of cast polymer products, Cultured Marble, Onyx, Granite and Solid Surface. You are right each has its own ingredients (we bought resins by the tanker load) and processes. Its just my personal experience from 25+ years of making the stuff and now fixing it (we repair small brands also) that some of the small manufactures do not do the R&D needed to turn out the best products. Again I could be wrong, it would not be the first time. Thanks
    RESTORE ~ RENEW ~ REJOICE !
    Wags
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    Wags

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 1806


    --
    26 Apr 2007 03:02 PM

    Just because you use similar ingredients doesn't mean the end product is the same.  If you have toured any large mfg of SS, you will see the amount of chemistry that goes into each batch.  I have been in a number of plants, large and small, and I can tell you there is little similarity between a guy pouring a few sheets to say, Aristects continuous cast plant.  Most small mfg air cure their material, while most large companies, if cell cast use autoclaves to evacuate air etc. Every step of the way the raw materials are tested, retested and watched.  If any remember, when Corian was first produced it was made with the same filler as cultured marble, which made the product very "muddy", but there is a relationship between cultured marble and solid surface,  cousins I guess.    I have seen many local producers of solid surface along the  years, most have come into and out of the business.  Today, it hardly makes sense to pour your own anymore. When you can get any of 100's of colors, delivered tomorrow, with a 10 year warranty for little more than it costs to produce your own, why take on that liability?  We have a fairly large independant SS company locally, even they admit it costs them more to make it then it would to buy it.. Sure they can offer some unique items, but, overall, it doesn't make alot of sense to make your own anymore, and the quality can't compare. 

    Karl Crooks
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    Karl Crooks

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 992


    --
    26 Apr 2007 06:15 PM
    Well said Wags !!!
    RESTORE ~ RENEW ~ REJOICE !
    David Gerard
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    David Gerard

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 2873


    --
    26 Apr 2007 06:44 PM
    Gentlemen,  I had mentioned in the beginning of this thread about some of the joinery used, basic butts in all the wrong places. is that common?  When repairs are needed do you pour the replacement piece in or fab a sheet piece?  I  asked the fabricator in question.   Big secret I guess.    David G.
    insomnia crossed with dyslexia and atheist beliefs may lead one to lay awake all night wondering if there really is a "Dog"
    Karl Crooks
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    Karl Crooks

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 992


    --
    26 Apr 2007 06:57 PM
    All solid surface that we have repaired, is done with the same basic steps as when solid surface is fabed.
    RESTORE ~ RENEW ~ REJOICE !
    Wags
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    Wags

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 1806


    --
    26 Apr 2007 09:31 PM

    the fabrication techniques used today, were learned from 40 years of failures.  In the beginning, butt joints, soft seams were the norm.  Then we progressed to butt seams but use a dowel and fill in the backside with glue.. This gave us the rounded inside corner... They failed.. Some still think that all these "fab rules are foolish", so they are destined to learn the hard way.  That said,  Sta Care in Wisconsin makes solid surface "blanks" that you soft seam togather, much like we did with SwanStone blanks.  They have a place in the market, but lets not confuse them with "real solid surface". They are an upgrade (maybe) from Laminate, but are not real solid surface.  Its great they do 14" with no support, mitered corners etc.. and I bet they give a long warranty... what  is that warrant worth when the company is not around any longer?  Does anyone really think all the "Big" guys have not experimented with various ways of making, fab'ing solid surface? 
    Remember when SS was 3/4" ?   There are reasons things are as they are.  Fab it according to industry standards and you rarely have a failure.  I would rather let someone else pay the price for experimenting with "new and improved" solid surface techniques. 

    Good Luck !

    David Gerard
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    David Gerard

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 2873


    --
    26 Apr 2007 11:32 PM
    Wags,, Aside from the guys personality you have helped solidified my decision to steer clear.  I 'm certain I will be around longer than this chap. It's also the ol adage,  If it's so great why then is'nt every body doing it thing.  Thanks  David G.
    insomnia crossed with dyslexia and atheist beliefs may lead one to lay awake all night wondering if there really is a "Dog"
    al
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member

    al

    Private Messenger: Send Private Message
    Posts: 2658


    --
    27 Apr 2007 01:26 AM

    David,  I have beat this drum from the time I got on this forum.  Pour your own is a train wreck waiting to happen.  Regional company named Jetta, makes hot tubs and used to pour their own solid surface.  Original owner got out just as the tops started to fail en masse.  One consumer told me that Jetta refused to honor his warranty after three years (ten year warranty) because they were close to bankruptcy, claimed that it had cost them one millin dollars that year alone to replace tops.  I have spoken to dozens of consumers who got screwed over this deal.  Original owner is living the good life in FL as we speak.

    Listen to Wags, he nailed it down.

    "if it is so safe, why aren't they supporting the testing?"
    You are not authorized to post a reply.
    Page 1 of 212 > >>


      
     FabNet Forum Rules (Click Plus Sign to Read) Maximize
        

    Copyright 2004-2012 by Karben Copy LLC. All rights reserved.