FEDSAWDAVE
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| 30 Mar 2007 05:51 PM |
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While this site is more realistic than others that have been posted as it relates to comparisons of granite, e-stone & solid surface, the "seams are visible" part on solid surface is utter lunacy. Where do these guys come from?
http://www.keidel.com/design/select...ompare.htm |
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Gordon Shell
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| 30 Mar 2007 06:30 PM |
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I wrote them and asked them "in kind words" to revise their article with factual information on SS. I also referred them to the fab network if they needed help with their research. |
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| Gordon Shell, gshell661@yahoo.com, 616-293-6170 |
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FEDSAWDAVE
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| 30 Mar 2007 06:33 PM |
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Thanks Gordon, you beat me to the bunch although another e-mail won't hurt. So, I'll send one. |
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Tom M
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| 30 Mar 2007 07:16 PM |
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Seams are inconspicuous, giving the appearance of a solid, continuous surface throughout. Unlike granite or natural stone, seams in solid surface should not be placed at sinks or cooktops.
I think (hope) that first statement was a typo, when you go further in the article you find the above statement.
There is more to be steamed about regarding laminate tops. This statement:
Do not use the countertop for a "hot pad". Prolonged exposure to temperatures of 140°F (60°C) or higher may cause the laminate to separate from the core material, or cause it to melt.
while partially acurate with regards the glue reactivation, is completely bolloksed on the material. Laminate will burn or blister, not melt, and we heat it to 313 degrees F to form it. It won't blister until it gets past 323 degrees F. Heck, the laminate manufacturers guarantee it to 275.
I swear we need to make a clue-bat for countertop reviewers.
Tom |
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C.S. Lewis |
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FEDSAWDAVE
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| 30 Mar 2007 07:24 PM |
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I asked in my e-mail if the writer of the article had EVER fabricated a top? Will be interesting to see if any of us get a response. If I don't, I'm calling them! |
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Andy Graves
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| 30 Mar 2007 08:17 PM |
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I called the company and spoke with the person that wrote the articles. He was very nice and listened to what I had to say. he told me he would take a look at the article again and adjust what he thought was appropriate.
He was not writing the article to be intentionally misleading. He has had experiences with solid surface where the seams were visible and he does not want to give the impression to his customers that the seams are invisible. |
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FabNet Administrator
andy@thefabricatornetwork.com
Countertop Company - www.OliveMill.com |
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FEDSAWDAVE
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| 30 Mar 2007 08:30 PM |
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Then he's not seaming properly. Period. Maybe he needs the link to Monument Tool Works.
Nice job Andy, FabNet changing one misconception at a time! Get-R-Done. |
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Tom M
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| 30 Mar 2007 09:27 PM |
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Only 49, 573,981 to go.
Hop to it, boys. |
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C.S. Lewis |
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FEDSAWDAVE
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| 30 Mar 2007 10:00 PM |
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You're not kidding Tom. And, why would consumers even need quality fabricators such as the folks on this board, when afterall, it's as easy as can be to do it yourself with sites like this:
www.easyfabcountertops.com |
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Tom M
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| 30 Mar 2007 10:18 PM |
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Nice find, there Dave.
This seems to be the logical step with 3CM. I didn't see much about a warranty, but I would assume it is material defects only.
I have to say, the market giveth, and the market taketh away.
It seemed like he was making his own, yes? |
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C.S. Lewis |
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FEDSAWDAVE
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| 30 Mar 2007 10:22 PM |
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Perhaps Chad knows of them, they say they supply a tube of Integra adhesive with every job. |
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FEDSAWDAVE
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| 30 Mar 2007 10:24 PM |
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Tom, I did not see where they stated what 3cm material it was. Perhaps someone can tell by the individual color names. |
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Tom M
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| 30 Mar 2007 10:41 PM |
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That's why I was wondering if they made their own.
They wouldn't have to toe anyone's line about warranties if it's their product.
Question:
As long as they market it under their name, with whatever manufacturer staying private, wouldn't this be fine as far as the law goes? Does a manufacturer have to follow their public warranty policy, if they keep the seller from identifying the material as theirs? |
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C.S. Lewis |
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Loren Fisher
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| 30 Mar 2007 11:11 PM |
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That material is nothing short of a material that was just at the Solid Surface show in Orlando. It is 3 cm and available in other thicknesses. That is not my website nor would I sell in such a manner,but I do recognize the material and colors as EOS.
Loren |
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Andy Graves
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| 30 Mar 2007 11:31 PM |
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I thought EOS only sold through certified fabricators. Why would they want homeowners to DIY? I guess EOS has never really ever stated whether it is a concern although I am sure it is much easier to DIY 3cm material than 1/2. |
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FabNet Administrator
andy@thefabricatornetwork.com
Countertop Company - www.OliveMill.com |
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Tom M
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| 30 Mar 2007 11:33 PM |
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I kind of doubt it is EOS, but I can't say for sure.
So if it was, and it was not identified as EOS, do they still have an obligation to warrant? |
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C.S. Lewis |
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Andy Graves
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| 30 Mar 2007 11:36 PM |
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EOS does have a 10 year transferrable warranty. Not sure if the law requires EOS to back the warranty. If I were EOS, I wouldn't back the fabrication of a homeowner. Maybe they just warrant the material itself. |
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FabNet Administrator
andy@thefabricatornetwork.com
Countertop Company - www.OliveMill.com |
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FEDSAWDAVE
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| 31 Mar 2007 12:24 AM |
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Perhaps Gordon can clear this up.
Tom, we private label FEDSIL silicone, however it is a Dow-Corning packaged product. Your saying if I don't tell you it's Dow, then there is no warranty? I'm sure you could probably google the hell out of it to find the manufacture and I know we're talking two differant playing fields but if it's put in a homeowners hands, all bets are off as to any warranty expressed or implied. |
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FEDSAWDAVE
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| 31 Mar 2007 12:34 AM |
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Click on COMPANY on their site. The guy promoting this is a William Hedger. He blatantly cuts down on fabricators saying, and I paraphrase, that If DYI's learn how to do this, SS Fabricators will have nothing to do. That is why he "pushed for a 3cm material" and found a manufacture to supply it!! Who that manufacture is, we will find out!
I have e-mailed the company and asked who their material is made by.We will see if I get a response.
I'm tired of this crap! |
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Joe Corlett
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| 31 Mar 2007 12:48 AM |
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[QUOTE] FEDSAWDAVE wrote
While this site is more realistic than others that have been posted as it relates to comparisons of granite, e-stone & solid surface, the "seams are visible" part on solid surface is utter lunacy. Where do these guys come from?
http://www.keidel.com/design/select...ompare.htm
[/QUOTE]
Andy said:
..."He has had experiences with solid surface where the seams were visible and he does not want to give the impression to his customers that the seams are invisible."
Dave said:
"Then he's not seaming properly. Period."
Dave:
I appreciate your efforts to push solid surface, but when you exaggerate the quality of solid surface seams to "invisible" you raise customer expectations to unattainable levels.
I was taught at the DuPont school thirteen years ago that seams in solid surface are inconspicuous. I have sold all my jobs as inconspicuous, not invisible and have never had to deal with a smart-a$$ brother-in-law who comes over to my customer's house and finds the seams.
I don't care if you cut your pieces on a 200K Komo and pull 'em with Gorilla Grips, if you're cutting through large particulates, you're going to see the seams if you look hard enough.
I have pulled inconspicuous seams on estone jobs. Not solid surface quality - yet - but definitely inconspicuous. The granite guys will have to do the same and soon. Their old 1/16"-1/8" standard of acceptability is becoming archaic because of our efforts.
No more mis-information,
Joe
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