Norm Walters
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| 31 Jan 2007 01:19 AM |
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I have been given the task of coming up with a universal adhesive chart for the Forum. What would be easier to look at in everyone's opinion? I was thinking maybe an Integra chart cross referencing all manu's products plus estone. Maybe adding a couple more adhesive manu's such as Gruber or Corian's adhesive. What brand adhesive are most of you using? No need to have a bunch of information that no one is going to use, so I need some feedback on this one. |
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Joe Corlett
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| 31 Jan 2007 02:36 AM |
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Norm:
If I had your assignment, I would put up the Integra chart and call 'er done.
If there is a company with more technical knowledge (see this month's SF magazine), better customer service (personal experience), products (invisible color-matched seams, estone or ss), and support of our industry (face time at the shows) please list them.
These guys are number one because they've kicked everyone else's a$$ fair and square.
There are usually lots of guys to argue with me. C'mon boys, let 'er rip.
Joe |
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Tom M
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| 31 Jan 2007 04:20 AM |
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Norm,
Integra is sold to us with Staron. Good move in my opinion, but I'm gonna have to see how much more I'm paying.
Most of the others are proprietary, but we know they all don't make them themselves.
Corian
Formica
Avonite
Hi-Macs
Gibralter
etc.
Tom |
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C.S. Lewis |
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Andy Graves
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| 31 Jan 2007 04:25 AM |
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All the manufacturers have to be on the list and then we can post the third party adhesive manufacturers as well.
We need to include the third party other than Integra, because the fabricators use other products. The FabNet is about the fabricator. If the need Gruber, Plexus or Adhesive Technologies then that is what we put on the chart. We don't play favorites on the FabNet. |
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Norm Walters
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| 31 Jan 2007 04:34 AM |
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Andy, with all that information on a chart it is going to be useless because if will take too long to go through, I certainly would not spend the time. There has to be a way to do it that is convenient and fast. If we could make it work so that you go through one menu to find the sheet manu, then a drop down menu for the color of the sheet, then a drop down menu for the adhesive manu's name and designated color for that material. Is Amir still around?? |
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Andy Graves
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| 31 Jan 2007 04:39 AM |
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The first thing I would do is gather all the contact information from all the manufacturers and third party glue companies. Get all the charts in PDF format. That way we can just upload them in a nice uniform layout. |
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Chad Thomas
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| 31 Jan 2007 06:19 PM |
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Norm,
I don't envy you in the least being charged with that task. I manage all of our color charts for Integra and its a big job keeping everything up to date.
Most sheet manufacturers add or drop between 6-20 new colors every year, all at different times and then we glue guys have to catch up.
Now if you were to create a database that included 3 adhesive mfg's and a bunch of 3rd party sellers, the task of providing up to date, accurate information just became much larger.
As far as a drop down type list that allows selecting the sheet, then the adhesive mfg or something similar, this would also be quite an undertaking. We have looked at doing this for our customers and in our case would involve 35 mfg's of Solid Surface and Quartz surfacing and over 120 adhesive colors. Again quite a task to set up let alone keep current.
The best option may be to simply provide links to the adhesive suppliers own sites where the charts are maintained and PDF files are available.
I'd be happy to discuss any options or ideas to make this work as I think it would be a great resource for fabricators to have all the adhesive suppliers info in one place.
Chad
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Chad Thomas
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Norm Walters
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| 31 Jan 2007 10:34 PM |
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Chad, I just looked at your web site. How you guys have it is how I think it should be. I doubt the other adhesive manu's have it set up like that but I will check. I know Andy just wants me to jump into this thing, and get it done but I am not going to do something that makes no sense from the onset. I have been throught the spinning my wheels on other sites already, not going there. |
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Ed Clark
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| 05 Mar 2007 06:07 PM |
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Norm,
This is the first time I have been involved in a forum posting for this web site. I know this is late in the process, but I felt it important for you to know that we also post our adhesive color matches on our web site. We use to print them for customers, but when the list got to over 50 pages long, I felt there were better options. For the last few years, we have listed all our matches on our web site and it is this location that we add all updated information. This provides our customers with current product matching.
In order to make a list as valuable to Fabricators as possible, I believe that a partnership between sheet suppliers and adhesive providers is needed. As mentioned earlier, sheet colors are changing all the time. There is no clearing house for sheet suppliers to provide samples for color match. Ultimately, this task falls upon the adhesive suppliers and you can image, uniformity falls from there. One problem though, if a sheet manufacturer is selling an adhesive, they have no interest in sharing.
One last thought, due to the dynamic nature of sheet colors, your might consider establishing an internet location where sheet supplier colors and adhesive providers matches are listed and updated in real time. If something like this is not established, your list will quickly go out of date.
Thanks for your time and willingness to address this issue.
Ed |
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Norm Walters
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| 05 Mar 2007 06:56 PM |
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Ed, thanks for your post and welcome to FabNet, feel free to post anytime, we appreciate the input. You do make some interesting points, I was originally going to convert adhesive charts to PDF's, but as you pointed out they are continually changing with new products and colors out all the time. What I think is the best thing to do is just have links to all the adhesive manufacurer's web sites on one page. This way it will be up to date, rather than replacing PDF's all the time, not to mention the amount of time it would take to verify changes if there actually were any. |
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neil kelley
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| 05 Mar 2007 07:55 PM |
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Norm,
Whatever I can do to assist you in your efforts regarding ADHESIVE TECHNOLOGIES seaming adhesives, please let me know. I'll see you all at the show! Thanks Glueman |
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Tom M
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| 05 Mar 2007 09:59 PM |
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There's a lot of love for you, Norm. A lot of love.
Can you feel it?
Looking forward to Fla.
Tom |
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...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
-C.S. Lewis |
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Norm Walters
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| 06 Mar 2007 12:47 AM |
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I hear ya Tom, maybe we should have a per click charge when fabricators click on the links to the adhesive manufacturer's. That way Andy can finally get that Corvette he deserves, and Mory, well, he can get new valve cover gaskets. |
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FEDSAWDAVE
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| 06 Mar 2007 12:57 AM |
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Andy's not getting a vette unless it looks like a grocery getter....hehehehehehehe |
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Ed Clark
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| 06 Mar 2007 04:45 PM |
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Norm,
I think you have a great idea for a short term solution to keeping lists updated! (ahhh the love). I am a little concerned about having this list be a real time resource if one finds themselves out and about. It would be interesting to see how fabricators capture the information they need to do their job on a daily basis. Understanding this would allow the development of an even more resourceful tool.
I have to admit that in the past, I have spent more of my time in the cast polymer side of our business. I can see by the banter tossed out, that I need to spend more time on the fabrication side. This group appears to really have its act together, dynamic visionaries that are good looking too! I will now pull my boots off and just mention that I will be at the Surface Expo next week in Orlando and look forward to meeting many of you.
Ed |
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Norm Walters
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| 07 Mar 2007 12:55 AM |
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Ed, most fabricators have the adhesive charts at their shops. There are times though that they are either misplaced or another adhesive is used that one is not familiar with. In cases like this it would be nice to go on the FabNet and find what they are looking for, FAST |
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Norm Walters
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| 29 Mar 2007 02:31 AM |
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Andy, I see you have started on the adhesive chart, here are a few links to adhesive manu with cross references.
http://www.confiad.com/english/products_4.php
http://www.andersonashworthadhesives.com/id5.html
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Andy Graves
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| 29 Mar 2007 05:48 AM |
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Perfect Norm. Last night I was screwing around with the charts and found that if I just copy and paste them into the text editor, they turned out pretty good. Then with a little formatting, I was done.
I will use those links to add the other charts. If you have anymore let me know.
Thanks for you help on this Norm. |
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Norm Walters
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| 07 Apr 2007 01:25 AM |
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Andy, here is the Corian adhesive chart, it is on page 9, you are going to have to zoom in to see it.
http://www2.dupont.com/Corian/en_GB/assets/downloads/pdfs/technical/english_2005_dupont_corian_book_techknowhow.pdf
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Andy Graves
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| 07 Apr 2007 02:30 AM |
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Thanks, I'll add that to a manufacturer section. |
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