Check out this link from a stone site.  Much hoopala has been spewed about this so called scientific study, yet as I understand it, the study showed the reduction of bacteria which seems to say that what ever product that did the best, had the most bacteria on it in the first place.

My main point is that stone, quartz and solid surface are and will always be competitiors for the same countertop buck.  Now, this is a countertop site, stands to reason that all should be included.  However, should the industry association or trade show be granting equal status to these competitors?

What is eye opening if you google this study, is how the stone guys organized and spread it around.

We need to learn from that, quickly.......

Opps!  Forgot something,   http://www.mbstone.com/HH_promo/articles/Bacteria_In_Granite_new.htm  

Now, for another take on granite and bacteria,    http://ezinearticles.com/?Sealing-Granite-Countertops-Guide&id=282774 .

I like this guy"s idea on feeding the bacteria in your granite countertop.  Perhaps they will leave your family alone if you feed them regularly.

Here is a good quote from a stone website

Is it true that granite countertops are bacteria resistant?
Yes it is! Researchers measured the bacteria resistance capacity of six common countertop materials and granite and stainless steel performed significantly better than four other countertop choices. If you are concerned about bacterial contamination of your kitchen countertops, granite is the way to go.

Boy, these guys aren't going to let the truth get in the way of feeding their families.

Found another reference to the famous cleaning study, interesting.

"Obviously by this study, stainless steel or granite can be cleaned most effectively. But before jumping to conclusions, consider this information with a few caveats...

First of all, the test was commissioned by a stainless steel group. We're not saying that Dr. Snyder's results are in any way tainted, but you should realize that this was a controlled test. Perhaps a different type of tile might outperform the granite, or perhaps another type of granite might outperform stainless in both aspects. Or perhaps another brand of cleanser would be more effective on concrete, and less effective on laminate. Maybe a chlorine-based cleanser would be much more effective on laminate, and would damage stone or stainless...the possibilities are endless.

The second thing to consider, is "how much" cleaning is needed? Do most people use a cleanser and then use a solution of vinegar? I daresay if you clean your concrete twice as often as your neighbor cleans her stainless, your concrete will be less likely to harbor and transfer harmful bacteria.

And finally, remember that whomever you speak with, they will promote what they are selling, and will go to great lengths to badmouth the competitor's material. There was a time when solid surface people claimed that granite countertops emitted radon gas -- and nothing could be further from the truth"

Here is the link if you want to read the entire story  http://www.splitlevel.net/countertop.html

Let's do a scientific study.  I think you are right that they are all banning together to get that information out.  I believe it is nonsense.

Here is another train wreck in progress,  

Q: I am concerned with sanitizing the stone, especially after cutting meat, what do I do?
A: You should clean your granite as you would any countertop material. As with any food preparation surface, always clean meat juice thoroughly. Wash with soap and hot water, rinse thoroughly with a different rag or sponge than the one used for washing, and dry with a clean paper towel. This will remove any bacteria on the stone surface, which is all there is to be concerned with. The minerals in granite are toxic to bacteria, because they deny them an environment in which to live and grow.

Class, can we say cross contamination?

If we do our own test, wouldn't it answer the question once and for all?

Working on it, studing the methods to do it.  First we do it, confirm what we already know, then pay some experts to do it again.

Oh, that famous study was done by a stainless steel top group.  guess who came out on top?

Good suggestions. I,am thinking about planning an event here called designing with Solid Surface. The goal is to invite as many designers as i can and expose them to SS all day.

Speakers will include other designers, plus fellow fabricators. Plus the standard boring power point presentation.

We have to play the same game

 

 

AL & Andy,

     As I stated in another thread I am in the process of contacting some former professors of mine in college. I have found ont to be retired, but my aunt works at my former college and I have been given the information to contact the new microbiology teacher to see if I can have them run the test for us as a lab project. I am also getting contact information for the instructors at Kansas State University Vet college and the microbiology department there with instructors I had there and can have my nephew who is in attendance there also gather some info for me. It really is not that difficult to preform the test it is matter of being able to qauntify the results. By that have the proper method to gauge how much was put on and then taken off. In most studys that I have seen it has been a one time shot and nothing never followed up after for say a 2 hour to 2 day wait and reswab to see if one product can sustain growth better than the other in normal conditions.

As I say coming up with the procedures is simple, but in order to abtain the results it takes people with the growth mediums and microscopes etc to get any good results. I am working through my protocal for the test I propose be done and will get it to you to post and see if anyone has any other things that they feel would give us true results.

Also Al in your research so far have you found any one that has done the testing using Solid Surface other than Consumer Reports (who buy they way had to revoke a report they did on child safety seats). Most I have seen avoid it so I was just curious?

Feel free to email me at hoffstops@cozadtel.net with your phone numers so I can contact you and discuss this further if you would like.

Thanks,

  Reuben

Al:

I seems no one has answered the title's question.

Plastic laminate countertops have a huge percentage of the market share and I'm sure that's where the big boys are going to go to claim it. DuPont didn't get into the granite business because they wanted to, they got in because they had to.

At the $25.00 p.s.f. or so Dave was recently talking about, the granite guys will soon be eating the p.l.'er's lunch.

Let's all race to the bottom,

Joe

Joe, thanks for bringing up the original question.  What are your opinions on that?

I didn't think about the study setting up the pl crowd.  Smart, Joe, smart thinking.

New thread in the community prodgects section.  Jump in and lets start the defense first while Rueben, myself and hopefully others gets a handle on the testing part of this.

Reuben, I remembered your efforts and am just trying to compliment them.  Growth mediums are easy, got to learn proper sanitizing and get a microscope, perhaps ebay.  I understand there are sources of safe e.coli to work with and am assuming the same is true for salmonilla (sp?).

Hadn't found any testing done on solid surface, but surely the manufactures have that available.  I'm going to ask Andy's permission to use this sites name on an email to the manufactures, or write an email that he could edit and send to them, asking for any and all data available.  We need to gather everything already done to have a starting point.

Still, I believe we can do some testing ourselves to lead us in the right direction, then have it redone by qualified people so as to have more credibility.

Reuben, I sent my contact info.

Reuben, it looks pretty simple.   Agar, or a substitute mixed with sugar and boullion cubes for nutrients, steirlized in a pressure cooker, then swab the suspect sample and swab the petri dish and cover.   Keep warm for 24 to 48 hours, then stain with Grams stain, and look at under a microscope.

We need to find a source of safe e.coli and some info on counting the bacteria or get a microscope that works off a computer so we can post the images.

I'm going to start collecting the agar, petri dishes and microscope.

Al,

Go ahead and use the Fabricator Network name to contact whomever you want.  I would contact Mory, he has some good contacts the might get you to your answers quicker.

Yes, I believe Solid Surface is a natural competitor with Granite.  Just like Cable TV and DSL compete for the same customer leisure time.

My aunt works for Keebler and says that both Nabisco and Keeble have the identical offerings because when they land a large account, like a school district, they have to have the entire line.  I think Dupont now has solid surface, quartz and granite because builders require it.  When Dupont lands a large builder they are required to offer the whole countertop line.

A company that takes on all three lines, loses it's fight to go against the other.  I think that is what has happened in the last 5 years.  Ever since Zodiaq came out, solid surface has lost its edge.  Dupont stopped promoting the advantages over the other products.

For  countertop companies, it doesn't matter much as long as the profit margins are the same for all three.

Yeah kinda simple, however when working on the agars etc it is better if it is done with autoclave cleaned material. This makes certain that there are no chances of cross cantamination of the agars etc to hinder the counts that we truley want. I know that we may want to look at using certian agar types to aid in growth of certain bacteria . However the most common media is blood agar and that is not so fun to make the broth that you are thinking about normally works real well to grow large qauntities to dilute out etc for the testing procedues. I hope to hear back from one of the teachers this week and see if we can get them to do the testing if we can get them the sample tops.

Reuben

We were taught in High School that the rule of thumb was "Scientific Significance". Meaning that if an examination by scientific method could not disprove the study, it was legitimate.

Why shouldn't we be able to test existing kitchens, or create a combined kitchen with multiple food prep areas as a test project?
Yeah, not sure if it would be scientifically significant, but it would tell a great story.

Tom

Tom,

agrre that that would be good idea also. I am just trying to go the avenue of using the lab style if i can get one of the professors to do the testing as a class project to demonstrate the testing procedures for qauntifying bacteria etc. I know when I was in school we did this once or twice and the people were charged very little or nothing at all. They have all the correct growth medias from blood agars, TSA growth media, proper microscopes, slide plates, bunsen burners you name it and even if we have to pay something it is far better than having to purchase all the equipement. The other proposal that I am giving them is that if they do not want to do the entire process then we can do the main testing of the surfaces take the swabs and get those samples to them. If that is the way it goes then at that time we could easily add existing kitchens in the study. My main goal here is to get sealed and unsealed granite comparisons also and in the testing see if there is growth days after the original cleaning Have to remember that in using actual kitchens there will be natural bacteria show up that are totally harmless and can cloud the results if go lab style total control and known factors definatly harder to disprove results. Sorry about all the technical stuff but I am a little passionate about this stuff and want to make sure if going to invest ti,e in the study we need to have it correct so the people who see it will not say that was just done totally wrong for them to prove what they wanted.

Reuben