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Digitizing Tables
Last Post 28 Mar 2008 12:09 PM by Seth Emery. 57 Replies.
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Norm Walters
 Veteran Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 1880
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| 19 Feb 2008 03:40 PM |
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Travis, all I do is remodels, with sticks. I cut 2" x 6"'s down to 4" (standard backsplash height). Cut them into 24" lengths, and template on top of them. No down time for the customer. |
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Norm www.normwaltersconstruction.com |
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Dennis Schafer
 New Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 42
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| 19 Feb 2008 03:47 PM |
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Oh, if we are doing a remodel that has existing countertops, we can just template overtop of the existing countertops, fab the counter and do tear out and replace in one day. But customers usually expect some down time, so it is just a bonus for them not to have counters for a week. |
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| dennis@spectrumsurfaces.com |
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Tom M
 Senior Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 5924
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| 19 Feb 2008 03:56 PM |
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We actively market against the no top till install thing. Our customers are happy to not have the down time. |
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| "Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win, by fearing to attempt." - Shakespeare |
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Travis H
 Basic Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 492
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| 19 Feb 2008 04:30 PM |
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Wow, thats amazing. I must have gotten lucky and got an LT that is amazingly accurate. My Silestone fabricator required me to get one. They would not take a template any other way. My granite guy would just laugh at me if I told him I was bringing him stick templates again. They also both have cnc machines. Silestone is still built sq so I cut vinyl template from digital file and scibe top to fit. Granite guy cuts his own vinyl and scibes granite to fit. Stone cnc is for edge profile and sink cutouts. Waste of money to buy one to do your scribe work for you. |
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Travis CounterWise, Inc. |
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Travis H
 Basic Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 492
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| 19 Feb 2008 04:36 PM |
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One more thing, I have never had a kitchen yet that I could not template with lt55. Also, level doesnt matter unless you plan on moving the laser up or down. Just got to get it level enough to hit all targets. Remember, its a 2d machine. As long as your starting point is constant, level doesnt matter. When I walk into a kitchen it takes me approximatly 2 minutes to set up. Big kitchens are shot in multiple steps. Even then a big kitchen to me is 90+ sq'. Takes me no longer than 30 minutes to template. Could be faster but I have to answer all the customers questions. Lt has never failed yet. I wish I could say the same for myself. Battery is no big deal. You can plug the hp unit right into the laser if it happens to go dead. Laser battery lasts a long time. Yea it freezes every now and then, never during a shoot though. Simply hit the reset button on your first template and its good for the day. Unless you turn the ipaq off before closing lt software. Then it freezes every time. Not trying to argue or make anyone mad but I gotta tell ya. You guys are dead wrong if you think the LT-55 is not a great machine. |
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Travis CounterWise, Inc. |
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Tom M
 Senior Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 5924
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| 19 Feb 2008 04:56 PM |
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Travis, I do think the LT-55 is a great machine. Trouible is, I finally find guys who do quaslity estone and slab work, but only one (Silestone) takes the digital files. Two of my other guys even have CNC's and they still do not take the dang files. Works great for solid surface. I have to disagree with you on the never fails, though. Also, although the CAD software is fine for it's purpose, it sucks in general and they could give us some standard CAD stuff that would be a help. We still run it through the shop software before transmitting the finished files out. You also have to be careful in the set up abvout your line orientation, etc. The rotate function (to square a line) does not always lay flat, but sometimes 90 degrees and 45 degrees. |
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| "Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win, by fearing to attempt." - Shakespeare |
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Dennis Schafer
 New Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 42
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| 19 Feb 2008 05:08 PM |
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So by your own admission both your granite and silestone have to eventually have physical templates. So what is the point of not just making a physical temp in the first place? Since we are paying for someone to fab the Silestone, it is unacceptable to have to scribe it ourselves. Our Silestone is cut on a waterjet that follows the contours of our template so no scribing is required. In my mind it is a waste of money to have stone CNC just for sink and edge polishing. Much cheaper ways of doing that considering the price of a stone CNC. If you are going to all the trouble of getting a file to a computer, why not have it do the whole piece rather than just half of it. Thats like cutting a solid surface sink hole on the CNC and then using a skill saw and power plane to finish cutting it out. |
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| dennis@spectrumsurfaces.com |
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Dennis Schafer
 New Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 42
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| 19 Feb 2008 05:12 PM |
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I think that someday digital templating will be the standard, but I just don't think that it is to a point where it is as accurate and foolproof as physically making a template. Just today I templated a job that the customer had a raised bar with weird angles. He wanted the radius of the bar to match the radius of his pendant lights, which was taken off the wall opposite the bar. How would you be able to show the customer that and have them approve it, without making a physical template? |
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| dennis@spectrumsurfaces.com |
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Gordon S
 Basic Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 391
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| 19 Feb 2008 06:24 PM |
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Dennis,
I don't think over 1000 LT-55 owners are wasting their time, the thing is extremely accurate, maybe your unit had been dropped and needed to be calibrated (which can be done for free by contacting us). All of the situations that you spoke of are easily shot with the LT-55 it justs takes a little bit of thought ;after using it everyday for a couple of weeks you don't even have to think about special situations anymore they just come second nature. The LT-55 can easily do raised bars, check out the video of Drew shooting a kitchen on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcf-3nEQ4Dg you should be able to see his video of adding a raised bar in a matter of minutes, very fast very accurate.
99.9% of our issues are due to lack of training, did you ever have someone from Laser Products train you either in person or on the phone?
If your worried about being able to confirm the measurements there is a "view dimensions" feature on the 1.58 software that displays all the dimensions for varification.
Please come to our booth at one of the shows and challenge us, I gaurantee we will meet your challenge, arcs, circles, raised bars, etc. It won't be long before the majority of stone shops only accept digital, the major quartz MFGs have already started in most markets.
Check out the pictures of the doctors office that they are using for the Digital shoot-out a couple of days before Coverings in Orlando, you can see them on the Stone advice site listed under the digital shoot-out thread. The office is full of weird angles, radius tops, arc tops, raised bars, blind corners, etc. We are looking forward to shooting that office, as a matter of fact, Drew is going to video tape the event and post it for all to see.
If you can get your hands on the LT-55 again, give one of us a call and we can walk you thru how to use it easily, or you can visit us at any of the shows and we will train you there.
Thanks |
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| Gordon Shell,
Laser Products Industries,
LT-55, LT-55XL, Hilti lasers, and Bridgesaw Line Generators.
www.laserproductsus.com,
gshell@laserproductsus.com,
gshell661@yahoo.com,
616-293-6170 |
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Gordon S
 Basic Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 391
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| 19 Feb 2008 06:35 PM |
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Just today I templated a job that the customer had a raised bar with weird angles. He wanted the radius of the bar to match the radius of his pendant lights, which was taken off the wall opposite the bar. How would you be able to show the customer that and have them approve it, without making a physical template? ******************************************************************************** The laser could have shot the pendants in arc mode and created the EXACT arc of the lights, you could build the raised bar on the pocket pc, show the customer the drawing on the pocket pc with dimensions and have them sign off on the drawing, if they are not happy with the small drawing, you could bring a laptop and either hook the LT-55 to it and show them a larger drawing of their kitchen, or pull out the sd card stick it in your laptop and open their kitchen in CAD and show them an actual cad drawing on a large screen, you could print the drawing and have them sign it. How did you duplicate the pendant lighting with a hard temple? Just curious, I can only think of a plumb bob and 2 men. |
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| Gordon Shell,
Laser Products Industries,
LT-55, LT-55XL, Hilti lasers, and Bridgesaw Line Generators.
www.laserproductsus.com,
gshell@laserproductsus.com,
gshell661@yahoo.com,
616-293-6170 |
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Travis H
 Basic Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 492
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| 19 Feb 2008 06:36 PM |
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Finally, some backup has arrived. Dang Gordon, where you been all day. I was gettin thrown to the wolves man. |
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Travis CounterWise, Inc. |
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Travis H
 Basic Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 492
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| 19 Feb 2008 06:43 PM |
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Dennis, I can cut a vinyl template from my digital file in arround 5 minutes. So I have 30 mins in template 1 hour or so in acad cleaning it up 5 minutes in cutting. 1:35 minutes complete template that is very very accurate. I do agree with Tom, The software in the ipaq could be better and thats why I dont really complete drawings in the ipaq. I load them into acad to finish. Tom, I have noticed that the rotate function will mess up if I dont have the laser pretty close to a 90 when I turn it on. They explain this in the training. Also if you must shoot a kitchen in move the tripod and do multiple shoots, make sure you turn it all off so it resets. I must say, if I had to go back to doing wood templates.. I would get out of this business. Also, you should prepare for this cad work if you get a digi board. So if we eliminate that, I am making a complete template in arround 35 mins. |
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Travis CounterWise, Inc. |
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Gordon S
 Basic Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 391
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| 19 Feb 2008 06:53 PM |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4G3lnz1W70&feature=related Here is the link to how to do an upper bar quickly on the LT-55 plus the estimating feature that is included. good led zepplin background music. |
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| Gordon Shell,
Laser Products Industries,
LT-55, LT-55XL, Hilti lasers, and Bridgesaw Line Generators.
www.laserproductsus.com,
gshell@laserproductsus.com,
gshell661@yahoo.com,
616-293-6170 |
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Gordon S
 Basic Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 391
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| 19 Feb 2008 07:08 PM |
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Travis, Sorry about that, just got in from training another satisfied customer in GA, he learned the system on the first kitchen we did, I let him do the second kitchen on his own, hopefully he will be posting about his new toy soon, I'll let him identify himself. The next generation LT-55 with the full size tablet laptop is going to make everything else obsolete, I'm getting to see a test run of the new one tomorrow! we may have it with us in Vegas not sure yet. The new screen will allow you to have a customer sign-off on the drawing right on the screen similar to when you sign the tablet to accept a UPS package, you will also be able to have the training videos loaded on to the tablet, if you get stumped in the field just fire up the video and watch how. Another great feature is the tablet will have a wireless aircard option, meaning, you will be fully connected to the internet on the road, you will be able to send your template back to the shop right from the customers location, download the dxf file for the customers sink directly from the mfgs site and add it to the drawing in front of the customer. The tablet also has a digital camera that will take stills or video, you could attach the pics or video to your drawings so that the guys back at the shop can visualize everything. This is just the tip of the iceburg when it comes to what this thing will be capable of! |
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| Gordon Shell,
Laser Products Industries,
LT-55, LT-55XL, Hilti lasers, and Bridgesaw Line Generators.
www.laserproductsus.com,
gshell@laserproductsus.com,
gshell661@yahoo.com,
616-293-6170 |
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Travis H
 Basic Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 492
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| 19 Feb 2008 07:35 PM |
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Hey guys, I am thinking of buying a mustange. But I am gonna get the one with the v6 motor. Kinda like someone who owns a cnc and still makes wood templates.. Just a little joke... |
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Travis CounterWise, Inc. |
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Travis H
 Basic Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 492
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| 19 Feb 2008 07:39 PM |
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Gordon, I sure hope you have a demo at the show. That sounds really cool. Where is this big screen going to sit? Are they coming up with a retrofit so it has a little stand to sit on? Either way, I gotta have one..... get me on the list. Everyone else..... yep I am sold on this machine... if I broke mine, lost mine or it got stollen I would hawk the kids to get another one.. thats how much I love it. |
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Travis CounterWise, Inc. |
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Gordon S
 Basic Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 391
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| 19 Feb 2008 07:57 PM |
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They plan on enlarging the existing stand and putting it in place of the pda, the case interior is also getting a redesign to acommodate the tablet. |
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| Gordon Shell,
Laser Products Industries,
LT-55, LT-55XL, Hilti lasers, and Bridgesaw Line Generators.
www.laserproductsus.com,
gshell@laserproductsus.com,
gshell661@yahoo.com,
616-293-6170 |
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John Cristina
 Advanced Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 563
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| 20 Feb 2008 11:12 AM |
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We have an old timer that does our templating, been using cardboard for the 12 years he's been here. I could not get him to switch over, so I offered him a challenge. This was in place of telling him or giving him the ultimate ultimatum. I could template a condo building faster than he could minus the time to digitize the cardboard templates. Same buildings, 10 units each 50 square foot kitchens, w/ raised bar tops, master bath and hall bath. Got to the job site about 10:30, I got all mine done with the laser went and had lunch around noon, then went back and finished up the his last 4 units. He has never touched cardboard since.
If you add up the savings on that project for us it would look like this. 45 minutes for hard template, 30-45 minutes to digitize times 80 units. Saved around 120 man hours at (15 per hour x 2.5 (burden)) = $4500 saved. about 1/3 the cost of the unit.
the time savings are huge. no comparison. if you use a CNC to cut with, digital is a no brainer.
John
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| "If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else" - Berra |
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Travis H
 Basic Member
Private Messenger:  Posts: 492
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| 20 Feb 2008 12:52 PM |
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OH sure John... speak up now after I have taken so the ultimate beating. Oh by the way... did they fit? If so you must have gotten lucky and got an accurate machine also. :) |
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Travis CounterWise, Inc. |
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Tom M
 Senior Member
 Private Messenger:  Posts: 5924
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| 20 Feb 2008 01:57 PM |
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Gordon, Just a note: You should not have copyrighted music on the vids. Not to mention the fact that it is more confusing to make out the subject for us hard of hearing guys. |
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| "Our doubts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win, by fearing to attempt." - Shakespeare |
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